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Obraik
785 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2495095 30-May-2020 14:05
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MarkH67:

 

Same price?  Then I'm buying the Kona (I don't need the extra space the Niro offers) for the 400+ km range.

 

But in a few years I'm looking at 2nd hand prices, if the Kona is more valued and the Leaf is going cheaper - I would consider a 62kWh Leaf.

 

 

Looking on Trademe, yeah. A used import 62kWh Leaf E+ goes for between $60k-65k. There are a few used Kona and Niro's on TradeMe within that price range too.

 

I'd happily recommend a $10k-$20k used Leaf as the value of degraded battery modules alone can fetch almost that price but when you can get other EVs for the same cost with thermal management I'd always recommend the latter. Once you start getting over $25k you start to find liquid cooled BMW i3's with better safety ratings than Leaf's for the same price 


daparrot
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2495158 30-May-2020 15:38
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Its not the long trip charging issue as much as just how hot the battery gets at the height of summer

 

in general use around town during a normal day, Heat (and cold) is never good for the life of the battery

 

Also how well does the New Leaf's handle charge only to X% over night etc.. That alone makes the Model3 awesome

 

where you can choose only to charge it to whats needed for day to day use.

 

Linuxluver:

 

With higher capacity you don't charge as frequently, in fact you have less fast charges needed and with a longer gap between them for the battery to cool down.  But it is more than that, the rate of charge is comparatively less - 24kWh battery charging at 50kW is just over 2C, 62kWh battery chaging at 50kW is well under 1C.  So the 62kWh battery will heat less during charging and then have a LOT longer to cool down again before it needs to charge again.  A 24kWh Leaf needs to fast charge (at over 2C) and then it could be less than an hour later when it needs to fast charge again and before you know it you need to add in a cool down period.  I wouldn't use a 24kWh Leaf for long trips, even if it is possible to use it.  But I would consider using a 62kWh Leaf for long trips.

 

Having said that - I would consider switching to a 64kWh Kona when I change cars because it seems to get a better range for almost the same size battery as the 62kWh Leaf and I certainly don't mind the active thermal management.

 

On the other hand - I wouldn't discount the idea of getting a 62kWh Leaf if the price was enough cheaper, because it would still be a good car with a decent improvement in range compared to my 24kWh Leaf.

 

For me the lack of active thermal managment isn't a deal breaker, I would instead consider the price, range, features and price - all being MUCH more important.

 


 
 
 
 


MarkH67
401 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2495230 30-May-2020 18:50
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daparrot:

 

Its not the long trip charging issue as much as just how hot the battery gets at the height of summer

 

in general use around town during a normal day, Heat (and cold) is never good for the life of the battery

 

 

In the middle of summer with my car parked in the sun all day the battery temperature is fine.  The only time I've seen my battery temperature climb towards the worrying temperature is when fast charging.  Charging at more than 2C on a hot day in summer is going to at a few degrees to the battery temperature.  If you drive, fast charge, drive, fast charge, etc. then you are going to get to a point where you need to just rest the car to let the temperature drop.  What I'm saying is that it IS long trip charging that is the big issue for battery heat.  I keep an eye on the battery temperature guage and I have no problems summer or winter for my 70km/day commuting, the temperature is never far from the middle of the guage, I just wont use my 24kWh Leaf for long trips.


PhantomNVD
2619 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #2496283 1-Jun-2020 19:03
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Hers a great GeekZone style post of an open source project to manage battery charging

https://anko.co.nz/auto-limit-ev-charge-to-80/

Just something I came across on FB, I know nothing about it myself.

MarkH67
401 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2496285 1-Jun-2020 19:20
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I use a guestimate of how long it would take to get a decent charge (around 70%) and based on my typical time home from work on Friday I have a certain time that my charger turns off every Friday.  I also have a time set for my charger to tun on each Sunday.  This allows me to avoid having my car sitting on 100% for the weekend.  Because I use my car regularly each day Mon-Fri this works out well for me.  I do all of this with a Sonoff POW WiFi module that cost around $15 and utilizing their own software.  I can also check from my smartphone the car charger's power usage with nice bar graphs available.  In my case I don't really need to hit 80%, just anywhere between 60% and 80% is fine.  The Sonoff Wifi switch is rated for 15A or 3kW and the EVSE is only drawing 8A, so it is well within what it can handle - It's been working great for more than 2 years now.


daparrot
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2496429 2-Jun-2020 07:12
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MarkH67:

 

I use a guestimate of how long it would take to get a decent charge (around 70%) and based on my typical time home from work on Friday I have a certain time that my charger turns off every Friday.  I also have a time set for my charger to tun on each Sunday.  This allows me to avoid having my car sitting on 100% for the weekend.  Because I use my car regularly each day Mon-Fri this works out well for me.  I do all of this with a Sonoff POW WiFi module that cost around $15 and utilizing their own software.  I can also check from my smartphone the car charger's power usage with nice bar graphs available.  In my case I don't really need to hit 80%, just anywhere between 60% and 80% is fine.  The Sonoff Wifi switch is rated for 15A or 3kW and the EVSE is only drawing 8A, so it is well within what it can handle - It's been working great for more than 2 years now.

 

 

I do a reasonable drive in my 30kW leaf so most nights it gets a good charge.

 

I too have been using the Sonoff POW to control switching but notice due to the long periods of 16A

 

draw I tend to burn the units out every 12months and dont rccomend them inside a building.

 

A safer way is to have the SonOff device supply power to a NZ certified 240v 40Amp relay and that supplies

 

the power to the Leaf.

 

It works perfectly but you do miss the current draw logging.

 

 


paulchinnz
Circumspice
688 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2496431 2-Jun-2020 07:22
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@markh67 is your Leaf ex-Japan and @daparrot is yours ex-UK?

 
 
 
 


daparrot
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2496437 2-Jun-2020 08:38
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paulchinnz: @markh67 is your Leaf ex-Japan and @daparrot is yours ex-UK?

 

Our leaf is a 30Kw ex Japan leaf so its got the 3.3kw charger onboard

 

We use the caravan plug 16Amp Leaf charger

 

The reason I mention the 40Amp relay is future proofing


daparrot
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2496441 2-Jun-2020 08:47
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paulchinnz: @markh67 is your Leaf ex-Japan and @daparrot is yours ex-UK?

 

This is what happend twice ( after about 12 months of use )

 

 

 

 


HarmLessSolutions
37 posts

Geek


  #2496457 2-Jun-2020 09:19
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We have a 2012 ex-Japan 24kWh Leaf. Our charging is done from midnight to benefit from Ecotricity's low off-peak rates (16c/kWh). We have a JuicePoint 7kW EV charging unit that requires a dedicated 32amp feed, even though the Leaf only draws 3.3kW but the JP unit is aimed at being capable of charging further EVs in the future.

 

The timer we are using is a Theben TR 608 which has run flawlessly during the 4 years we have had it installed. Clever little gismo which has programmable 24 hour/7 day timing and automatically adjusts for daylight saving shifts.

 

From a recent review by Robert Llewellen on Fully Charged (below) on his 2011 Leaf his advice was to avoid 'topping up' a minimally discharged battery as it degrades the battery significantly. In light of the much reduced use of our Leaf due to my partner working from home due to COVID we have been avoiding plugging in the charger as a matter of course following every (short) journey.

 


Obraik
785 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2496510 2-Jun-2020 10:49
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That Leaf charging advice is interesting.

 

Tesla has the opposite advice for their vehicles - keep it plugged in as much as possible. Their official word was "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla"


daparrot
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2496554 2-Jun-2020 11:00
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Obraik:

 

That Leaf charging advice is interesting.

 

Tesla has the opposite advice for their vehicles - keep it plugged in as much as possible. Their official word was "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla"

 

 

Yes but a Telsa has the ability to set its charge limit which My Leaf doesn't have

 

( I wish it did but its a 2016 where they took that feature out )

 

I typically set the model 3 to charge to 70% and only tweak it up when we go out of town

 

NO EV should stay at 100% for long periods of time

 

 


Obraik
785 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2496612 2-Jun-2020 11:31
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Yeah I keep my Model 3 at 70%, mostly so I can take advantage of free charging at mall/city parking buildings when I'm visiting them. 


HarmLessSolutions
37 posts

Geek


  #2496617 2-Jun-2020 11:38
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daparrot:

 

Obraik:

 

That Leaf charging advice is interesting.

 

Tesla has the opposite advice for their vehicles - keep it plugged in as much as possible. Their official word was "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla"

 

 

Yes but a Telsa has the ability to set its charge limit which My Leaf doesn't have

 

( I wish it did but its a 2016 where they took that feature out )

 

I typically set the model 3 to charge to 70% and only tweak it up when we go out of town

 

NO EV should stay at 100% for long periods of time

 

 

 

The V2G system that Tesla are suspected of introducing in conjunction with their 'million mile battery' would tend to correlate with keeping vehicles plugged in as much as possible.

 

The scenario that these guys are describing in regard to Tesla, V2G, battery leasing and a VPP system is interesting in this regard: 

 


MarkH67
401 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2496721 2-Jun-2020 13:49
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paulchinnz: @markh67 is your Leaf ex-Japan and @daparrot is yours ex-UK?

 

Mine is a 2015 24kWh ex-Japan Leaf.  Capable of 15A but I'm charging from a standard power socket in the garage with an EVSE that only draws 8A.  This is more than enough for my needs, even if the battery was under 20% when I got home from work, it would still get to 100% before I needed to head off to work the next day.  Since it is always 100% in the morning, what do I care about how long it took to get there?


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