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frankv
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  #2617305 7-Dec-2020 09:53
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kingdragonfly:

New Atlas: Aptera opens orders on 1,000-mile solar EV that never needs charging

...what if your daily driver was the closest thing on the road to a solar racer? An EV truly designed with ludicrous levels of efficiency as the primary goal? Something so aerodynamically slippery that it makes a mockery of the production car world? Well, that's the Aptera. And its manufacturers claim that its 180 small solar panels, making up an area of more than three square meters (32.3 sq ft), will harvest enough energy that many drivers will never have to charge it.

The top-spec Aptera can self-generate as much as 45 miles (72 km) of range per day in ideal conditions, which is more than twice the average daily mileage of American car owners. And that doesn't have to be a terribly large amount of energy, thanks to its extreme frugality...

 

3 sq m = 600W in bright sunlight. A typical car uses in the ballpark of 20kW at 100kph, but this car has a .13 Cd vs .3 - .4, so it will use a third the power, say 6kW. So solar only supplies at best 10% of the power needed while driving. Aerodynamic drag is a square or cubic function, so to get down to 600W you're going a third the speed, say 35kph. Conversely, though, if your commute is less than 1/9 of your work time, you can drive to work at full speed, then have it recharge for your commute home at full speed, then recharge off mains in your garage.

 

But I wouldn't want to be doing 100kph on those skinny tyres... better to stick to 35kph in case you need to brake hard.

 

 


 
 
 

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wellygary
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  #2617322 7-Dec-2020 10:20
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frankv:

 

But I wouldn't want to be doing 100kph on those skinny tyres... better to stick to 35kph in case you need to brake hard.

 

 

Good luck finding somewhere to park it too,  with those goofy front wheels it is 2.2m wide .. that's wider than an actual military Humvee

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_3

 

 


kingdragonfly
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  #2617328 7-Dec-2020 10:35
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I think the "Aptera 3" is actually contrary to get EV's more acceptance among the general population.

It emphasizes the "EV's are weird" arguments.

As far as uses it's "to be seen", "to stand out". Perhaps a good prop for a 1970's scifi movie.

It's equivalent to the modern remake of the Morgan three wheeler.




Scott3
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  #2617462 7-Dec-2020 12:41
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mikebails:

 

kingdragonfly: Autocar.co.uk: Top 10 best electric cars 2020, in the UK

1. Kia e-Niro
2. Volkswagen ID 3
3. Peugeot e-208
4. Hyundai Kona Electric 64kWh
5. Mini Electric
6. Kia Soul EV
7. Nissan Leaf
8. Vauxhall Corsa-e
9. Honda E
10. Renault Zoe

 

In NZ, almost all of these cars cost the same or more then a Tesla Model 3 SR+ which is a much better car. Kia, Hyndai and co need to drop their prices about $15-20k to reflect the disparity in specs and build.

 



Only the E-Niro ($78k) Kona 64kWh ($79k), Mini Electric ($60k), and nissan leaf ($60k) are available in NZ as new cars. (and the mini has a 6 month wait). Add say $600 for driveaway prices.

The Base model 3 is 77k so comparable to the e-niro and Kona, but quite a bit more expensive than the mini and leaf.

 

But the model 3 is in a different class to the other models E-niro and Kona. It's much bigger, faster, but won't appeal to people shopping for small hatchbacks. If they didn't all happen to be electric we wouldn't be comparing them. That said, the Korean EV's are great cars with ranges that beat the model 3 SR+, better build quality, and features like a dashboard and keys coming as standard.

 

The Korean brands do seem to be pricing their cars a lot higher in NZ than in competing markets such as in Europe, USA etc. I think they are only happy to sell them here at high margin, happy for the bulk of their capacity goes to markets where they need to keep their fleet average emissions down. Frankly I don't see this changing until our clean car standard is passed and starts to bite down on fleet average emissions.

I am grateful they offer their cars here at all. Many other cars on that list are Europe only at this stage.


Obraik
2006 posts

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  #2617468 7-Dec-2020 12:51
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Do cars really need keys these days? A dash cluster is fairly unnecessary too.





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Batman
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  #2617471 7-Dec-2020 13:01
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I almost bought a Tesla when I realised there were no knobs and buttons. I can't see myself scrolling the ipad to use the wipers.

SaltyNZ
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  #2617472 7-Dec-2020 13:02
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Batman: I almost bought a Tesla when I realised there were no knobs and buttons. I can't see myself scrolling the ipad to use the wipers.

 

 

 

It's gesture based. You wave the iPad around and the wipers follow.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.




Scott3
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  #2617475 7-Dec-2020 13:04
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frankv:

 

kingdragonfly:

New Atlas: Aptera opens orders on 1,000-mile solar EV that never needs charging

...what if your daily driver was the closest thing on the road to a solar racer? An EV truly designed with ludicrous levels of efficiency as the primary goal? Something so aerodynamically slippery that it makes a mockery of the production car world? Well, that's the Aptera. And its manufacturers claim that its 180 small solar panels, making up an area of more than three square meters (32.3 sq ft), will harvest enough energy that many drivers will never have to charge it.

The top-spec Aptera can self-generate as much as 45 miles (72 km) of range per day in ideal conditions, which is more than twice the average daily mileage of American car owners. And that doesn't have to be a terribly large amount of energy, thanks to its extreme frugality...

 

3 sq m = 600W in bright sunlight. A typical car uses in the ballpark of 20kW at 100kph, but this car has a .13 Cd vs .3 - .4, so it will use a third the power, say 6kW. So solar only supplies at best 10% of the power needed while driving. Aerodynamic drag is a square or cubic function, so to get down to 600W you're going a third the speed, say 35kph. Conversely, though, if your commute is less than 1/9 of your work time, you can drive to work at full speed, then have it recharge for your commute home at full speed, then recharge off mains in your garage.

 

But I wouldn't want to be doing 100kph on those skinny tyres... better to stick to 35kph in case you need to brake hard.

 

 

It's not a typical car. Drag is much lower, that's kinda the point.

What they are trying to get at is if (under ideal conditions) You will gain 72km/day from solar. Enough to cover a typical commute at typical speeds.

The ideal conditions astrix is a big one. Probably needs cold temperatures, clear sky's, long mid summer days, car orientated for maximum solar catchment, never shaded etc. Realistically never going to happen.

General consensus seems to be that the weight and cost of solar panels mean they arn't worth including on an EV, which could well spend most of it's life parked in the shade. But I have to admit the idea of leaving the car parked up at the airport for a week and comeing back to it fully charged is pritty cool.

 


I don't think the tire width is too much of a concern. The vehicle is very light, so doesn't need as much rubber on the road to get the job done as a larger car.

The tire size on the previous version was 165/65 R14. Exactly the same as a Suzuki celerio (except it has 4 of them).

The BMW i3 has even narrower tire's (155/70R19), and that car does just fine at the open road speed limit.

 

 

 

As other have pointed out, the 2.2m width would be quite a chore. Your wheel would hang out 400mm than the side of a typical 1.8m wide car when paradell parked... Auckland transport's carpark width guidance has a minimum width of angle parks at 2.5m, so you would physically fit, but if your wheels were near the doors of side by side cars they would find it hard to get in / out. My have issue with the width of access ways, payment barriers etc too. Using a keypad designed to be used from the drivers window would suck.


Obraik
2006 posts

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  #2617476 7-Dec-2020 13:04
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Batman: I almost bought a Tesla when I realised there were no knobs and buttons. I can't see myself scrolling the ipad to use the wipers.

 

My Tesla turns its wipers on itself. But there's also a button on the indicator stalk to activate them manually too.





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mikebails
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  #2617481 7-Dec-2020 13:16
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Batman: I almost bought a Tesla when I realised there were no knobs and buttons. I can't see myself scrolling the ipad to use the wipers.

 

There are buttons. Wipers are automatic but can be activated by pressing in the button on the left hand steering wheel stork. To be honest, you don't really ever need to touch the screen when you're driving. Now, when I get in another car I feel overwhelmed by all the buttons, knobs and dials. Its crazy that there are so many single-use controls in a legacy car! 


tripper1000
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  #2618229 8-Dec-2020 16:15
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EV's need to be "normal" not different for the sake of being cool or what ever. I too have looked at Tesla's and been totally put off by the touch controls. . 

 

I think touch screens in cars have been normalised somewhat by touch screen phones, but paradoxically we accept you shouldn't be using those when driving. Any control that takes your eyes off the road is a bad idea. Controls in cars need to be tactile so that they can be operated by feel, and ideally, without removing hands from steering wheel as well. 


Geektastic
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  #2618231 8-Dec-2020 16:16
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wellygary:

 

frankv:

 

But I wouldn't want to be doing 100kph on those skinny tyres... better to stick to 35kph in case you need to brake hard.

 

 

Good luck finding somewhere to park it too,  with those goofy front wheels it is 2.2m wide .. that's wider than an actual military Humvee

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_3

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know which car of the two I would rather own...!






Geektastic
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  #2618233 8-Dec-2020 16:23
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Batman: I almost bought a Tesla when I realised there were no knobs and buttons. I can't see myself scrolling the ipad to use the wipers.

 

 

 

I watched Clarkson's test of the Model X last night.

 

Amusing watching it burn off the R8 but the price...!

 

A mere NZ$220,000 with all the options...

 

 

 

I'd just buy a Range Rover or a Porsche and use the cash I saved to buy fuel.






Linuxluver

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  #2618234 8-Dec-2020 16:23
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Batman: I almost bought a Tesla when I realised there were no knobs and buttons. I can't see myself scrolling the ipad to use the wipers.


It's nothing like that. If anything, a Tesla is easier to control in many respects than most other cars. It's almost all right there on the wheel or the stalks next to it.




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Obraik
2006 posts

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  #2618237 8-Dec-2020 16:35
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tripper1000:

 

EV's need to be "normal" not different for the sake of being cool or what ever. I too have looked at Tesla's and been totally put off by the touch controls. . 

 

I think touch screens in cars have been normalised somewhat by touch screen phones, but paradoxically we accept you shouldn't be using those when driving. Any control that takes your eyes off the road is a bad idea. Controls in cars need to be tactile so that they can be operated by feel, and ideally, without removing hands from steering wheel as well. 

 

 

Yeah, but you very rarely need to touch the screen while driving in a Tesla.





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