EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2645436 1-Feb-2021 18:07

Another big one - GM announced 2035 carbon neutral and end of consumer and petrol and diesel vehicles:

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/general-motors-announces-plans-to-go-all-electric-by-2035/

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Technofreak

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#2645585 1-Feb-2021 21:50

From the RNZ site https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435599/electric-cars-too-costly-for-some-turners-ceo

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Obraik

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#2645595 1-Feb-2021 22:22

Technofreak:
From the RNZ site https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435599/electric-cars-too-costly-for-some-turners-ceo

I mean, the CEO isn't saying anything that isn't already known.

Although their numbers are out of date. There are a number of Leaf on TradeMe for under $10k.

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tdgeek

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#2645603 1-Feb-2021 23:06

Obraik:
I mean, the CEO isn't saying anything that isn't already known.

Although their numbers are out of date. There are a number of Leaf on TradeMe for under $10k.

A less than 10k Leaf would have how much range left? At some point those early ones must almost become worthless.

But in any case, we won't see widespread EV purchasing as they are not available in those numbers. Price is too high for what you get. Will I miss out on a subsidy? Will prices crash after I get one, these type of issues, but they aren't here yet to buy in numbers or model range. So its a pretty moot point.

What will happen in a couple of years or so when prices reduce? More models? Plenty of volume? Subsidy? Its so obvious no need to say.

GV27

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#2645615 2-Feb-2021 06:37

tdgeek:

Obraik:
I mean, the CEO isn't saying anything that isn't already known.

Although their numbers are out of date. There are a number of Leaf on TradeMe for under $10k.

A less than 10k Leaf would have how much range left? At some point those early ones must almost become worthless.

They can have batteries from newer/better Leafs swapped into them. You're still swapping in one crappy primitive battery for another but it can change the range.

There are local efforts to get third-party battery packs with more modern cells into Leafs, but the cost is prohibitive. I'm hoping this changes, they look like they could be fun with a bit of a tickle in the same way the old Mini was.

tdgeek

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#2645619 2-Feb-2021 06:48

GV27:

They can have batteries from newer/better Leafs swapped into them. You're still swapping in one crappy primitive battery for another but it can change the range.

There are local efforts to get third-party battery packs with more modern cells into Leafs, but the cost is prohibitive. I'm hoping this changes, they look like they could be fun with a bit of a tickle in the same way the old Mini was.

Yeah, but a worn down Leaf that's still 9k, add an 8k battery, but you won't end up with a 17k valued Leaf.

GV27

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#2645622 2-Feb-2021 07:26

tdgeek:

GV27:

They can have batteries from newer/better Leafs swapped into them. You're still swapping in one crappy primitive battery for another but it can change the range.

There are local efforts to get third-party battery packs with more modern cells into Leafs, but the cost is prohibitive. I'm hoping this changes, they look like they could be fun with a bit of a tickle in the same way the old Mini was.

Yeah, but a worn down Leaf that's still 9k, add an 8k battery, but you won't end up with a 17k valued Leaf.

Correct, hence why a $20K battery replacement is currently a non-starter.

I'd still happily drive a 2011 Leaf with an Android Auto headunit and a 200km range tbh - I'd be fine with importing one myself provided I had some assurance I wouldn't end up with a lawn ornament in a couple of years time with no way to make it function like a car.

tdgeek

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#2645623 2-Feb-2021 07:31

GV27:

Correct, hence why a $20K battery replacement is currently a non-starter.

I'd still happily drive a 2011 Leaf with an Android Auto headunit and a 200km range tbh - I'd be fine with importing one myself provided I had some assurance I wouldn't end up with a lawn ornament in a couple of years time with no way to make it function like a car.

I thought they had way less range that 200km? Especially a 2011?

20k is ridiculous. You can probably buy a brand new ICE engine and transmission for that. Plus with an ICE you will never get to that point where you consider replacement from normal use

GV27

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#2645640 2-Feb-2021 08:42

tdgeek:

They had way less range that 200km? Especially a 2011?

20k is ridiculous. You can probably buy a brand new ICE engine and transmission for that. Plus with an ICE you will never get to that point where you consider replacement from normal use

The 2011s with the pre-Lizard chemistry are probably down to about 50km by now, but it doesn't seem terribly consistent.

It's still early days for third-party packs. Hopefully they make some inroads in development that let them get that down a little.

Geektastic

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#2645679 2-Feb-2021 09:52

Followed yet another truck belching out so much black smoke this morning it looked like it was running on coal.

It’s all very well expecting people to stop buying modern and clean petrol cars but what are you going to do about the trucks?

Never mind the tradies and farmers etc. one farmer around here just spent $800,000 on a new diesel tractor....

Obraik

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#2645689 2-Feb-2021 10:06

tdgeek:

A less than 10k Leaf would have how much range left? At some point those early ones must almost become worthless.

But in any case, we won't see widespread EV purchasing as they are not available in those numbers. Price is too high for what you get. Will I miss out on a subsidy? Will prices crash after I get one, these type of issues, but they aren't here yet to buy in numbers or model range. So its a pretty moot point.

What will happen in a couple of years or so when prices reduce? More models? Plenty of volume? Subsidy? Its so obvious no need to say.

No, a cheap Leaf won't have an abundance of range available. However, cheap second hand ICE vehicles also has have their own list of issues.

One of those Leaf certainly won't fit the use case for many people, but they would be plenty fine as a daily commuter to work/school/shops.

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SaltyNZ

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#2645692 2-Feb-2021 10:11

Geektastic: Followed yet another truck belching out so much black smoke this morning it looked like it was running on coal.

It’s all very well expecting people to stop buying modern and clean petrol cars but what are you going to do about the trucks?

Never mind the tradies and farmers etc. one farmer around here just spent $800,000 on a new diesel tractor....

We don't need to have an electric replacement for every possible kind of vehicle before we can roll out any at all. If we get to the point where the only things running on diesel are tractors then we've probably already saved the world. But if you look at it from a different point of view: if 90% of the vehicles on the road have already gone electric, that diesel is going to get increasingly expensive as the economies of scale collapse. In other words, at some point in the near future - within 20 years for sure, probably less - there will come a point where all of a sudden everything else goes away because nobody can afford it because nobody is making fuel for it anymore.

There will probably be some holdouts for a very long time - maybe diesel tractors never go away. You can still drive a kerosene powered combustion engine car, or fly a Sopwith Camel that goes through 12 pints of castor oil every flight. But you have to go out of your way to do it.

I don't think we need to worry about all the 'what abouts' because the simple fact of the matter is that we will find alternatives because there isn't any other practical option.

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maoriboy

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#2645696 2-Feb-2021 10:23

$800,000 sounds about right for a new top of the range farm machinery (not sure about a tractor though?) and with no alternatives, will continue to be run to be run on fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. Farmers depend on these machines for the income and need reliable machines that can work - sometimes - 18 hour plus days. Would be hard to get an electric alternative for that. Perhaps fuel cell tech would be more suitable for agri/hort use?