EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2694712 19-Apr-2021 10:33

tripper1000:

@MarkH67: I actually find it fascinating that so many people make the assumption that EVs will pay the same RUC as diesel cars, with no evidence that this is the case. The fact is that we don't know what RUC rate EVs will eventually be charged, or when they will start being charged.

You are assuming everyone else is assuming! 😂 Rock-soil evidence is that prior to the EV RUC exemption EV's did indeed pay the same RUC as diesels. There is no evidence that anything will change. We know exactly when RUC will restart - 01 Jan 2022 unless the Govt changes their mind beforehand. Road user charges are not a diesel thing - they are a non-petrol thing. Any road going vehicle powered by a fuel that is not road-taxed at the pump pays RUC. Diesel, steam, wood-gas etc, all pay RUC.

Yip. Before the temporary exemption EV's paid the same RUC's as other vehicles who's fuels were not taxed at source (Petrol, CNG, LPG). This is scheduled to end at the end of this year, and unless the government makes any changes EV's will be paying the same RUC's as diesels next year. (should note that the couple of hydrogen cars in NZ are paying this now).

Does seem likely that the government will further extend the exemption.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2694716 19-Apr-2021 10:40

tripper1000:

@MarkH67: I actually find it fascinating that so many people make the assumption that EVs will pay the same RUC as diesel cars, with no evidence that this is the case. The fact is that we don't know what RUC rate EVs will eventually be charged, or when they will start being charged.

You are assuming everyone else is assuming! 😂 Rock-soil evidence is that prior to the EV RUC exemption EV's did indeed pay the same RUC as diesels. There is no evidence that anything will change. We know exactly when RUC will restart - 01 Jan 2022 unless the Govt changes their mind beforehand. Road user charges are not a diesel thing - they are a non-petrol thing. Any road going vehicle powered by a fuel that is not road-taxed at the pump pays RUC. Diesel, steam, wood-gas etc, all pay RUC.

It sounds like an extension to the RUC exemption is definitely on the cards. https://transporttalk.co.nz/news/ev-ruc-exemption-extension-likely

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Scott3

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#2694776 19-Apr-2021 12:39

HarmLessSolutions:

It sounds like an extension to the RUC exemption is definitely on the cards. https://transporttalk.co.nz/news/ev-ruc-exemption-extension-likely

It's basically the most easy & palatable option for the government.

We haven't met our EV uptake goals, and aren't doing that good in emissions reductions in other area's either. Doing nothing and having RUC's at par with diesels on EV's from next year will create a massive market distortion, where a mini electric driver will pay triple the road tax of a yaris hybrid driver. Exactly the opposite of what we want to incentive's. Not good for the government when we have protest marches urging them to do more with regards to emissions reduction. Also this would allow PHEV owners to claim back their petrol tax via a form, creating a lot more paperwork, bureaucracy etc.

Basically the options to the government are:

Extend the current exemption.
Put an EV specific RUC rate at pay with road tax payed by the most efficient non plug in on the market (yaris hybrid atm)
Rework the entire petrol tax / RUC system. Most likely drop petrol tax and put RUC's on all vehicles, or replace both with a GPS monitored combined congestion charge / road use charge.

Option 1 is by far the easiest. Its the status quo, so not too many people will be upset by it.

Option 2 doesn't solve the issues with paperwork generated by PHEV's, and will cause owners of small diesel's (VW polo bluemotion, Swift diesel etc) to be quite upset as they have been unfairly treated by the RUC system (vs small petrol cars) for decades, yet this change doesn't apply to them. Also breaches the base principal of the RUC system that the fee is to cover the cost of maintaining the roading system. A Tesla model S doesn't do less road damage than a BMW 7 series diesel. If anything EV's do slightly more damage to the roads as they are heavier than comparable diesel cars.

Option 3 is ultimately what needs to happen, but it simply requires too much effort & the burning of political capital to happen in the short term. Getting rid of petrol tax would also mean the likes of a Nissan patrol Y62 v8 petrol owner would be way better off, and the likes of a prius driver would be way worse off. While fairer, it is the opposite of what we want to encourage from a emissions reduction perspective. Perhaps in a decade when EV's are widespread, we will be ready for this, and will build emmisions charges into fuel prices, and road chargers into a dynamic per km conjestion fee...

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#2694796 19-Apr-2021 13:57

Press release:

The Warehouse Group (TWG) is increasing public access to electric vehicle rapid charging with the expansion and upgrade of its charging station infrastructure.

The additional charging stations expand TWG’s existing network to a total of 28 The Warehouse stores around the country offering free EV charging. Thirteen of the sites have been upgraded to 25kW DC rapid chargers.

TWG Chief Sustainability Officer David Benattar says the company is very pleased to be providing greater access to fast charging for New Zealanders and by doing so is playing an important part in removing an EV adoption barrier.

“Providing greater access to rapid chargers for EV users not only removes a key barrier to greater EV adoption, but also contributes to New Zealand’s progress in establishing a decarbonised economy.”

Benattar says the expansion is another step in the Group’s EV commitment which is an integral part of its broader sustainability programme and action on climate change in New Zealand.

The EV rapid charging expansion has been enabled by a $265,000 grant from the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA). The grant was one of only 21 projects, out of 71 eligible proposals, approved by the EECA Board for funding last year.

Additional charging stations have been installed at The Warehouse Kaitaia and Waipapa, and a charging station will be installed at The Warehouse Greymouth next month.

Currently 59% of TWG’s passenger fleet is EV, with plans to transition 100% to electric within the next 24 months. Earlier this month, four custom EV trucks were introduced to service home deliveries.

As part of the EV rapid charging expansion project, TWG has partnered with ChargeNet, who are supplying the software for the charging installation and YHI Energy who have supplied the Delta 25kW DC Wallbox Chargers.

YHI Energy is New Zealand’s leading Energy product distributor, bringing to the market sustainable solutions in Solar, Energy Storage, EV Charging and Power Quality.

Aaron Gillon, Divisional Manager at YHI Energy says, “We are proud to partner with The Warehouse Group, it helps break down the perceived barriers of Electric Vehicles by having Rapid charging options available where people shop. It is great to have The Warehouse Group as a partner who is willing to embrace green technology solutions for themselves and the communities they support".

ChargeNet CEO Steve West says, "We’re excited to partner with The Warehouse as they expand their EV charging network. By welcoming The Warehouse chargers onto the ChargeNet network, together we are making it easier than ever for Kiwis to access rapid charging infrastructure at convenient locations across New Zealand."

ChargeNet is the largest electric vehicle (EV) charging network in New Zealand, with more than 200 rapid-charging locations across the country. ChargeNet offers drivers 24-hour support, 7 days a week.

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tdgeek

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#2694801 19-Apr-2021 14:09

Scott3:

It's basically the most easy & palatable option for the government.

Its actually the only option. They aren't doing a lot, so to remove the main benefit to EV consumers won't happen. Simple as that.

RunningMan

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#2694838 19-Apr-2021 16:14

freitasm:

Press release:

[snip]Thirteen of the sites have been upgraded to 25kW DC rapid chargers.

It's great TWG are doing this, but 25kW is hardly rapid. It's barely double the rate at which a lot of EVs will AC charge, is half the rate of most of the ChargeNet ones (50kW), and a drop in the bucket compared to the 150-300kW chargers starting to come online. Not complaining (it's great to see them installed), but new EV users plugging in thinking this is a rapid charge are going to be left with a poor experience.

NzBeagle

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#2694841 19-Apr-2021 16:40

RunningMan:

It's great TWG are doing this, but 25kW is hardly rapid. It's barely double the rate at which a lot of EVs will AC charge, is half the rate of most of the ChargeNet ones (50kW), and a drop in the bucket compared to the 150-300kW chargers starting to come online. Not complaining (it's great to see them installed), but new EV users plugging in thinking this is a rapid charge are going to be left with a poor experience.

A ploy to make you shop for longer? Or perhaps it's a cost control?

Not often I'd need to rapid charge when I'm stopping in anyhow.

Obraik

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#2694951 19-Apr-2021 18:04

RunningMan:

It's great TWG are doing this, but 25kW is hardly rapid. It's barely double the rate at which a lot of EVs will AC charge, is half the rate of most of the ChargeNet ones (50kW), and a drop in the bucket compared to the 150-300kW chargers starting to come online. Not complaining (it's great to see them installed), but new EV users plugging in thinking this is a rapid charge are going to be left with a poor experience.

Yeah I'm not entirely sure why they bothered. AC chargers, like what they had, is perfectly fine for the "charge while you shop" use case and is what is used by every other entity putting chargers in for this purpose.

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Jaxson

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#2695191 20-Apr-2021 10:47

What's the story on active battery temperature management/cooling?

Assume this protects and extends the life of the cells?

How do you determine if the vehicle you are looking at has this technology?

Obraik

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#2695197 20-Apr-2021 11:05

If you can, get an EV with active thermal management of its pack. Having this will likely see the pack last longer than the car itself. Don't buy a brand new EV without it.

Most new EVs do have it, however new models of the Leaf, Zoe and eGolf don't.

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afe66

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#2695209 20-Apr-2021 11:24

Obraik:
RunningMan:

It's great TWG are doing this, but 25kW is hardly rapid. It's barely double the rate at which a lot of EVs will AC charge, is half the rate of most of the ChargeNet ones (50kW), and a drop in the bucket compared to the 150-300kW chargers starting to come online. Not complaining (it's great to see them installed), but new EV users plugging in thinking this is a rapid charge are going to be left with a poor experience.

Yeah I'm not entirely sure why they bothered. AC chargers, like what they had, is perfectly fine for the "charge while you shop" use case and is what is used by every other entity putting chargers in for this purpose.

Most nz ev are leafs which struggle to charge at faster than 25 anyway because of age batteries. Mine for example . If there's a 50 and 25 kw chargers at same site in town I pick the 25 because I can't charge faster.

For urban chargers where toping up while shopping rather than long distance fast charging, I can see role for multiple 25kw vrs a single big charger where there's a big queue.

It may also be easier to rollout 25kw units within the existing electric infrastructure of a site.

Obviously not helpful for those that can't charge at home

paulchinnz

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#2695214 20-Apr-2021 11:37

Agree. When I got to the Warehouse, it's for a few specific things and I'm only there ~15 minutes, which with an 11kW charger I probably wouldn't bother unless it was hard to find parking elsewhere. However there's more motivation to use the charger if it's 25kW even for this short period of time.

Scott3

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#2695265 20-Apr-2021 13:11

Jaxson:

What's the story on active battery temperature management/cooling?

Assume this protects and extends the life of the cells?

How do you determine if the vehicle you are looking at has this technology?

In the pure electric space it is pritty much:

No active cooling: Nissan leaf

Active cooling: Everything else

Active cooling costs money, and protects the battery battery better. Some battery chemistry are more tolerant of a bit of heat (such 2014+ Nissan leaf's). But there isn't really a way to avoid that if you do multiple fast charges in a day you keep adding heat until. As such something like a leaf is not really suitable for an application that requires more than two decent fast charges in a day. If you have heard of rapidgate, this was Nissan dramatically slowing the fast charging when the pack ins warm to try and keep it from cooking itself. Obviously not idea when Nissan advertised fast charge times.

In terms of active cooling, not all are equal.

You have air cooled (env-200) where essentially the interior for the pack in air conditioned and a fan blows air around. Water cooling (tesla), and direct refrigeration (BMW i3).

jarledb

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#2695326 20-Apr-2021 15:40

Toyota announced their "Beyond Zero" EV strategy yesterday at the Shanghai motor show.

It includes 15 EVs to be introduced by 2025. They are building it on a platform they call eTNGA and they will be co-operating with Subaru and Suzuki. So we can probably expect multiple EVs from them as well.

Yesterday they showed off the bZ4X SUV concept that is a RAV4 sized SUV built on the new eTNGA platform. In their press release in the US they also teased that there will be EV utes, but my guess it will be a US only product.

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tripper1000

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#2696057 21-Apr-2021 12:45

25kw will be what TWG needs/wants to charge it's in-house fleet. A gold plated service for EV drivers won't be their aim here.

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