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Jaxson
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  #2702134 5-May-2021 11:21
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tdgeek:

 

Honda Jazz was in the news yesterday with electric options but no BEV. I got a FIT for golf, Id be into an EV Jazz. But no.

 



Nope, the E version LUXE model is petrol charging batteries, and only engaging petrol to drive when on open road speeds by the looks of it.  That part is quite different.

 

No plug in option to charge the electrics separately.

 

 

 

Definitely a funny market at the moment, where a lot of Electric versions are conversions from ICE, so not gaining the benefits you could do by designing the same car from the ground up as electric.


 
 
 

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wellygary
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  #2702137 5-May-2021 11:27
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tdgeek:

 

Wow. 75k for a 200km range, awesome....

 

 

And NZ car dealers are surprised the take up of New EVs are so low...

 

Aussie get 100 units, so it would be interesting to know what volume they are expecting to sell here...

 

Their price is exactly the same as ours (when adjusted for the 5% extra GST and currency) 

 

"Mazda will bring the electric MX-30 to Australia in an initial run of only 100 units, all of which will be the top-spec E35 Astina, priced from $65,490."

 

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/mazda-mx-30-pricing-specs-australia

 

 


SaltyNZ
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  #2702141 5-May-2021 11:32
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Mazda have always hated the very idea of BEVs and apparently are designing and pricing the MX-30 to prove their own point to themselves.





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tdgeek
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  #2702146 5-May-2021 11:46
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Jaxson:

 


Nope, the E version LUXE model is petrol charging batteries, and only engaging petrol to drive when on open road speeds by the looks of it.  That part is quite different.

 

No plug in option to charge the electrics separately.

 

 

 

Definitely a funny market at the moment, where a lot of Electric versions are conversions from ICE, so not gaining the benefits you could do by designing the same car from the ground up as electric.

 

 

Agree.

 

Is there really a need to redesign the car from the ground up? If they have a 2021 model with all the bells and whistles, removing the ICE, transmission and fuel tank should allow an easy install of a smaller electric motor, with no need for a transmission or fuel tank, just need to squeeze in batteries. Surely be easier and cheaper than a full new model?


HarmLessSolutions
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  #2702147 5-May-2021 11:47
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SaltyNZ:

 

Mazda have always hated the very idea of BEVs and apparently are designing and pricing the MX-30 to prove their own point to themselves.

 

The established ICE carmakers were always going to struggle with introduction of EVs into their production facilities and product range. The uptooling and upskilling involved in EV production will be substantial and VW seem like one of the few vehicle makers who has seriously adopted EV tech and practicalities, but they had motivation following the diesel-gate fiasco. Other European marques are making progress such as Audi, Mercedes Benz and Volvo/Polestar probably due to political and social pressures in their region. The Japanese are a little slower to make real progress as they cling onto fuel cell and hybrid plans (Betamax??). Then there's the Americans....

 

The other complication involved with introduction of EVs into a manufacturers lineup is the risk of showing up their existing ICEs in terms of performance, total cost of ownership and of course environmental emissions. The coming decade is going to be very difficult for many in the auto industry as the economics and practicalities of EV ownership gain domination over ICEs. Interesting times.





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alasta
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  #2702154 5-May-2021 11:52
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kingdragonfly: Ouch, I'd rather have a Tesla.

autotalk.co.nz: Mazda’s first bev from $74,990

"The electric Mazda MX-30 SUV is available from selected Mazda dealerships from mid-2021.

It’s priced from $74,990 and includes a free home Wallbox charger worth $2000 for early adopters.

 

There is no way I would consider buying a Tesla, but the MX-30 still seems like poor value for money compared with the Kona, Niro or Leaf. 

 

Mazda has achieved some great results from the R&D that they have invested into Skyactiv combustion engines, but I wonder if it has come at the expense of investment in electric powertrains. 


Jaxson
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  #2702163 5-May-2021 12:15
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That Kona does look pretty nice.

Real risk now is the hydrogen discussion.  EV's a almost double the price of a petrol equivalent, and that's a lot to shell out now an alternative option has been discussed.
Not saying it's here yet, or will ever actually arrive, but it puts uncertainty over the longer term future.

Cheap EV's are not here yet either, at least nothing that compare with ICE alternatives, so there's still a way to go until there are up front cost equivalent options.
Driver for now has to be on reduced running energy costs.





SaltyNZ
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  #2702168 5-May-2021 12:30
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Jaxson:

 

Real risk now is the hydrogen discussion. 

 

 

 

I don't personally think hydrogen will ever the answer for mass market vehicles. Special-purpose/professionally driven vehicles like trucks, buses, maybe even aircraft yes, but not cars.

 

There do not appear to be any good potential solutions to the problems of storage and handling. Either you have super-high-pressure gas or super cold liquid. Either way you need hoses and connectors that can stand being used by idiots 500 times a day without exploding or splashing cryogenic fluids everywhere. Petrol & diesel aren't exactly inert, but they're safe enough that you have to put in some effort to kill yourself with them.





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Jaxson
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  #2702170 5-May-2021 12:33
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SaltyNZ:

 

 

 

I don't personally think hydrogen will ever the answer for mass market vehicles. Special-purpose/professionally driven vehicles like trucks, buses, maybe even aircraft yes, but not cars.

 

There do not appear to be any good potential solutions to the problems of storage and handling. Either you have super-high-pressure gas or super cold liquid. Either way you need hoses and connectors that can stand being used by idiots 500 times a day without exploding or splashing cryogenic fluids everywhere. Petrol & diesel aren't exactly inert, but they're safe enough that you have to put in some effort to kill yourself with them.

 




Fully agree.


Jaxson
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  #2702184 5-May-2021 12:58
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

The Japanese are a little slower to make real progress as they cling onto fuel cell and hybrid plans (Betamax??).

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't call hybrids a dead technology just yet. 
They're currently a 10% premium over standard ICE, whereas full EV equivalent is often 50-100+% more on the initial outlay.

 

Both get you a vehicle, but one requires a significant additional investment up front, so both will be around for a while I suspect.

 

 

 

Was interesting to see vehicles that are offered in hybrid form not even offered here in NZ.  example say Ford Puma which is ICE only here in NZ but offered in hybrid in UK.
As a country, we can certainly do more to improve in this area.


kingdragonfly
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  #2702251 5-May-2021 13:40
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For all the talk from she-who-can't-be-named and climate change, she'll really leaning on hydro built in the 1970's, when "climate change" was just a whisper.

They are literally countries so far ahead of us, that they are phasing out subsidies.

Subsidies vary wildly, but €5000, NZD $10,000 is popular worldwide, often with a VAT tax exclusion

NZ Adviser Online: Government’s Budget 2021 reprioritises nearly $1 billion

How about subsidy for EV's,so we can join these nations? Figures in New Zealand dollars NZD

Aremenia ---------- 20% off (no VAT)
Austria ---------- $1562. 20% off (no VAT)
Belgium ---------- $15,413
Canada ---------- $14,756
China ---------- $10,780
Denmark ---------- $17,367
Estonia ---------- $27,673
Finland ---------- $10,061
France ---------- $16,769
Germany ---------- $8,384
Greece ---------- $9,223
Hungary ---------- $8,049
Iceland ---------- 24% off. (no VAT)
India ---------- up to 15% off base price, $3,000, or 30% (no VAT)
Ireland ---------- $16,046
Italy ---------- $10,062
Japan ---------- $13,395
Lativia ---------- 21% off (no VAT)
Luxembourg ---------- $5,000
Monaco ---------- $15,094
Netherlands ---------- $8,385
Norway ---------- 25% off (No VAT)
Portugal ---------- $8,385
Romania ---------- $8,385
South Korea ---------- $16,882
Spain ---------- $10,061
Sweden ---------- $6,588
Switzerland ---------- 4% off (no import tax)
United Kingdom ---------- $9,694
United States ---------- $10,462

SaltyNZ
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  #2702254 5-May-2021 13:48
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kingdragonfly: For all the talk from she-who-can't-be-named and climate change, she'll really leaning on hydro built in the 1970's, when "climate change" was just a whisper.

They are literally countries so far ahead of us, that they are phasing out subsidies.

Subsidies vary wildly, but €5000, NZD $10,000 is popular worldwide, often with a VAT tax exclusion

NZ Adviser Online: Government’s Budget 2021 reprioritises nearly $1 billion

How about subsidy for EV's,so we can join these nations? Figures in New Zealand dollars NZD

Aremenia ---------- 20% off (no VAT)
Austria ---------- $1562. 20% off (no VAT)
Belgium ---------- $15,413
Canada ---------- $14,756
China ---------- $10,780
Denmark ---------- $17,367
Estonia ---------- $27,673
Finland ---------- $10,061
France ---------- $16,769
Germany ---------- $8,384
Greece ---------- $9,223
Hungary ---------- $8,049
Iceland ---------- 24% off. (no VAT)
India ---------- up to 15% off base price, $3,000, or 30% (no VAT)
Ireland ---------- $16,046
Italy ---------- $10,062
Japan ---------- $13,395
Lativia ---------- 21% off (no VAT)
Luxembourg ---------- $5,000
Monaco ---------- $15,094
Netherlands ---------- $8,385
Norway ---------- 25% off (No VAT)
Portugal ---------- $8,385
Romania ---------- $8,385
South Korea ---------- $16,882
Spain ---------- $10,061
Sweden ---------- $6,588
Switzerland ---------- 4% off (no import tax)
United Kingdom ---------- $9,694
United States ---------- $10,462

 

 

 

We don't need to actually spend any money on it. The funds come from people who still insist on buying Ford Rangers for the supermarket run. It should work out basically neutral in terms of government revenue.





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kingdragonfly
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  #2702256 5-May-2021 13:53
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Here's an idea: no taxes for pure EV's, current rates for hybrids, double rates for anything else.

limited to $7,500 off for EVs (15% of $50,000)

HarmLessSolutions
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  #2702258 5-May-2021 13:56
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kingdragonfly: Here's an idea: no taxes for pure EV's, current rates for hybrids, double rates for anything else.
And put some incentivisation onto PV while you're at it. That will improve the economics of running an EV and help address the national generation shortfall.





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Jaxson
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  #2702310 5-May-2021 14:05
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

put some incentivisation onto PV 

 

 

Fully agree.  Now there are options to directly inject 240V, you no longer have to deal with battery storage complexity, and can make a real difference to offset cooling especially.  Great idea if you have air con in the home, or can use to heat hot water etc.

 

 


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