Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 329 | 330 | 331 | 332 | 333 | 334 | 335 | 336 | 337 | 338 | 339 | ... | 655
SaltyNZ
7234 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
2degrees
Lifetime subscriber

  #2728514 14-Jun-2021 13:52
Send private message quote this post

WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

is NZ generating enough electricity for wide spread EV adoption?

 

This story from ACT MP Simon Court a couple of weeks ago says maybe not.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to get over my instinctive reaction to reject out of hand anything an ACT MP has to say on the topic of the environment and simply point out that several studies have, in fact, been done on this topic, and the shocking answer is that NZ needs to expand the generation and distribution networks. Fortunately, more electricity used means more electricity sold so the null option as presented in the "let's build more generation and distribution capacity" business cases over the next few years will probably not be the one chosen.

 

It's always hilarious when someone trots out that line. Like, no, the people whose whole career it is to run the electricity networks totally overlooked this incredible insight you, Internet Rando, just had regarding system capacity.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 

You will find anything you want at MightyApe (affiliate link).
Dingbatt
6478 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2728515 14-Jun-2021 13:55
Send private message quote this post

Certainly has a political slant to it (article by Simon Court). I mean an engineer with quarter of a century in the energy industry, what could he possibly know that Megan Woods and James Shaw don’t?

 

NZ is currently importing coal to make up for the generation shortfall. So not using high quality coal from NZ, but using oil burning ships to bring lower quality stuff from overseas. Probably just as well NZF torpedoed the clean car policy (I guess they couldn’t call it the ‘green’ car policy) otherwise any increase in EV numbers achieved would have essentially be ‘coal powered’.





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Jaxson
7718 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2728518 14-Jun-2021 14:01
Send private message quote this post

Unfortunately the electricity coming out of the socket doesn't change colour to indicate it's coming from coal vs renewables such as wind or hydro.




Scott3
3398 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2728519 14-Jun-2021 14:02
Send private message quote this post

Dingbatt:

 

Certainly has a political slant to it. I mean an engineer with quarter of a century in the energy industry, what could he possibly know that Megan Woods and James Shaw don’t?

 

NZ is currently importing coal to make up for the generation shortfall. So not using high quality coal from NZ, but using oil burning ships to bring lower quality stuff from overseas. Probably just as well NZF torpedoed the clean car policy (I guess they couldn’t call it the ‘green’ car policy) otherwise any increase in EV numbers achieved would have essentially be ‘coal powered’.

 

 

Studies have show that even if an EV is 100% powered by coal, it is still less emitting than a typical petrol vehicle.

 

Should note the amount of coal NZ is currently burning is due to a double black swan event. We have a dry year stacked on top of a natural gas shortages due to production issues. The current situation is quite a rare event rather than the norm...

 

Final thing to be aware of is that NZ's fleet is on average something like 13 years old. It is quite a lot faster to build renewable generation capacity compared to waiting until cars sold this year drop out of our fleet due to being at end of life. This means that getting clean car policy through quickly was quite important.


tdgeek
28856 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #2728521 14-Jun-2021 14:04
Send private message quote this post

WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

With this news over the weekend, is NZ generating enough electricity for wide spread EV adoption?

 

 

It will be a very slow burn. It will take years and years for EV usage to have any effect. One would hope that in that time the coal generation will be scrapped, otherwise....


SaltyNZ
7234 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
2degrees
Lifetime subscriber

  #2728522 14-Jun-2021 14:05
Send private message quote this post

Dingbatt:

 

Certainly has a political slant to it (article by Simon Court). I mean an engineer with quarter of a century in the energy industry, what could he possibly know that Megan Woods and James Shaw don’t?

 

 

 

 

He was a civil engineer, not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't put forth my opinions on bridge design as expert advice. But I will give you that an engineer should have more technical knowledge in general than a politician. Nevertheless I stand by my point that "putting EVs onto the electrical grid requires more electricity, bet you didn't think of that, ha!" can only be either in someone arguing in bad faith or from hopeless ignorance. Either way it isn't one that really needs to be engaged with.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


Obraik
2007 posts

Uber Geek


  #2728530 14-Jun-2021 14:21
Send private message quote this post

Dingbatt:

 

Certainly has a political slant to it (article by Simon Court). I mean an engineer with quarter of a century in the energy industry, what could he possibly know that Megan Woods and James Shaw don’t?

 

NZ is currently importing coal to make up for the generation shortfall. So not using high quality coal from NZ, but using oil burning ships to bring lower quality stuff from overseas. Probably just as well NZF torpedoed the clean car policy (I guess they couldn’t call it the ‘green’ car policy) otherwise any increase in EV numbers achieved would have essentially be ‘coal powered’.

 

 

We use coal to cover the peak load and as far as I can tell, that's only coming from the two coal boilers at Huntly. There is a limit on how much power Huntly can supply via coal.

 

If Labour kicks off their pumped hydro plan that issue may disappear as that can then store off peak generation from renewable sources and supply it back into the grid during peak times and hopefully eliminating the need for Huntly at all. If there's not enough off peak generation to fully fill the pumped hydro storage then it might be an opportune time to incentivise rooftop solar.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits




frankv
5633 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2728536 14-Jun-2021 14:41
Send private message quote this post

There's no particular need for the pumped hydro to charge EVs, since the main benefit of pumped hydro is to shift the peak load. You can achieve the same thing by car owners setting timers to charge the car.

 

Since no-one has mentioned it, I'll add that rooftop solar is another, easily scalable, source of electricity generation that doesn't put any load on the network. Add some batteries and you'll be able to store your surplus power until you get home to charge your car rather than sell surplus power to the grid at 7c/kWh. Coincidentally, people repurposing slightly-too-tired-to-use-in-an-EV EV batteries to use with their home solar is one of the reasons why EV battery recycling is not yet a thing.

 

 


wellygary
7506 posts

Uber Geek


  #2728538 14-Jun-2021 14:51
Send private message quote this post

Obraik:

 

We use coal to cover the peak load and as far as I can tell, that's only coming from the two coal boilers at Huntly. There is a limit on how much power Huntly can supply via coal.

 

If Labour kicks off their pumped hydro plan that issue may disappear as that can then store off peak generation from renewable sources and supply it back into the grid during peak times and hopefully eliminating the need for Huntly at all. If there's not enough off peak generation to fully fill the pumped hydro storage then it might be an opportune time to incentivise rooftop solar.

 

 

Genesis have made 3 Rankines available to the network this winter, 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/genesis-to-bring-coal-fired-unit-out-of-mothballs-as-lake-levels-fall/HM26HPGB7PY4Z4HRVH5R274SYE/

 

They've also done a deal to buy some Methanex gas this  winter to allow them to run E3P (unit 5) fully ,

 

But on the downside, Mercury's Kawerau geothermal station has failed, and will be out of action for a couple of months


frankv
5633 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2728540 14-Jun-2021 15:18
Send private message quote this post

wellygary:

 

Genesis have made 3 Rankines available to the network this winter, 

 

 

Blondes with large earrings? One was more than enough! But potentially a good way to get warm, I suppose.

 

 


Obraik
2007 posts

Uber Geek


  #2728542 14-Jun-2021 15:23
Send private message quote this post

frankv:

 

There's no particular need for the pumped hydro to charge EVs, since the main benefit of pumped hydro is to shift the peak load. You can achieve the same thing by car owners setting timers to charge the car.

 

Since no-one has mentioned it, I'll add that rooftop solar is another, easily scalable, source of electricity generation that doesn't put any load on the network. Add some batteries and you'll be able to store your surplus power until you get home to charge your car rather than sell surplus power to the grid at 7c/kWh. Coincidentally, people repurposing slightly-too-tired-to-use-in-an-EV EV batteries to use with their home solar is one of the reasons why EV battery recycling is not yet a thing.

 

 

 

 

It was more going down the tangent of coal being used to power the grid. However, people charging their cars at night is based on people doing the right thing, which isn't always the way everyone works. Some power companies try and incentivise people to do things like charging their cars off peak by making desirable off peak rates, but those plans don't suit everyone so it costs the same to charge at anytime of the day.

 

I did mention rooftop solar but as I mentioned, it's only useful if there's somewhere to store if for when you need it. Having home energy storage is one way, but pumped hydro is another way to use the grid to store it.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2728544 14-Jun-2021 15:31
Send private message quote this post

Obraik:

 

It was more going down the tangent of coal being used to power the grid. However, people charging their cars at night is based on people doing the right thing, which isn't always the way everyone works. Some power companies try and incentivise people to do things like charging their cars off peak by making desirable off peak rates, but those plans don't suit everyone so it costs the same to charge at anytime of the day.

 

I did mention rooftop solar but as I mentioned, it's only useful if there's somewhere to store if for when you need it. Having home energy storage is one way, but pumped hydro is another way to use the grid to store it.

 

EVs are themselves a way of storing excess PV generation or levelling generation by way of V2G technology which Northpower is currently trialling in NZ





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


Obraik
2007 posts

Uber Geek


  #2728548 14-Jun-2021 15:39
Send private message quote this post

Yeah, some EVs are but it's not universal. Tesla's don't have V2G technology, for example.





Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits


Ge0rge
1777 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #2728549 14-Jun-2021 15:43
Send private message quote this post

Obraik:

Yeah, some EVs are but it's not universal. Tesla's don't have V2G technology, for example.



Nor is of very much value when the car is used to travel to work during the day.

frankv
5633 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #2728555 14-Jun-2021 15:54
Send private message quote this post

Ge0rge:

Nor is of very much value when the car is used to travel to work during the day.

 

Dunno... drive home after work, use what's left in your car battery to provide power for your cooking and heating, then charge up the car battery during the wee small hours for (if you live close enough to work, cooking your breakfast and) your commute.

 

 


1 | ... | 329 | 330 | 331 | 332 | 333 | 334 | 335 | 336 | 337 | 338 | 339 | ... | 655
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

HP Unveils Broadest Consumer Portfolio of AI-Enhanced Laptops
Posted 3-Mar-2024 18:09


Samsung Tab S9 FE Review
Posted 3-Mar-2024 18:00


Norton Genie Review
Posted 3-Mar-2024 17:57


Synology Introduces BeeStation
Posted 23-Feb-2024 14:14


New One UI 6.1 Update Brings Galaxy AI to More Galaxy Devices
Posted 23-Feb-2024 10:50


Amazon Echo Hub Available in New Zealand
Posted 23-Feb-2024 10:40


InternetNZ Releases Internet Insights 2023
Posted 20-Feb-2024 10:31


Seagate Adds 24TB IronWolf Pro Hard Drives for Multi-user Commercial and Enterprise RAID Storage Solutions
Posted 19-Feb-2024 16:54


Seagate Skyhawk AI 24TB Elevates Edge Security Capacity and Performance
Posted 9-Feb-2024 17:18


GoPro Releases Quik Desktop App for macOS and Introduces Premium+ Subscription Tier
Posted 9-Feb-2024 17:14


Ring Introduces New Ring Battery Video Doorbell Pro
Posted 9-Feb-2024 16:51


Galaxy AI Transforms the new Galaxy S24 Series
Posted 18-Jan-2024 07:00


D-Link launches AI-Powered Aquila Pro M30 Wi-Fi 6 Mesh Systems
Posted 17-Jan-2024 20:02


Newest LG 4K Lifestyle Projector Doubles as Art Objet
Posted 9-Jan-2024 15:50


More LG Smart TV Owners Set To Enjoy the Latest webOS Upgrade
Posted 9-Jan-2024 15:45









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.







Backblaze unlimited backup