EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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1521 posts

Uber Geek

#2742488 11-Jul-2021 15:38

Not all EVs are leafs, pretty much everything else should do multiple hundreds of thousands of kms. And even with leafs you can replace the pack on cars that are 10 years old already.

tdgeek

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#2742497 11-Jul-2021 16:10

Obraik:

tdgeek:

Id rather assume where RUC may go in the future than pretend that fuel costs exclude a temporary incentive. Whose misleading who?

I'm not saying you're misleading anyone. I'm just saying it's a pointless thing to bring up at the moment when a lot can change in three years. There's a lot of factors in this equation that could/will change in the next three years.

I agree, but I wasn't misleading anyone I said who is? Up front, full disclosure, the RUC is a freebie right now.Do we know what happens in 2024? No. Do we anticipate RUC, aka road maintenance fees for ALL road users, will remain freebies for EV's in the very long term? I would hope not. Its a tax on users of the roads.

tdgeek

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#2742501 11-Jul-2021 16:19

mattwnz:

Don't petrol cars have a potentially longer life though? In 15 years time, you will still get about the same range from the BMW filling it up with gas, as you would when it was new. The same wouldn't apply with a battery powered EV would it? Likewise is it even economic to replace batteries on EVs? A 15 year EV is probably worth very little when factoring in needing to replace the battery. Whereas a 15 year old petrol car should still have an okay value.

Yes, thats a very good point. There is no doubt that EV's are the way to go, I am a fan, despite what some here may think. But the reality is for EV's to make a dent we need a LOT of them. 60k cars are not for the average user, 40k cars are, and even they aren't as most people buy pre owned, there are few pre owned EV's and it will be years before pre owned EV's are common. We live in a wonderful low wage economy. We are a relatively poor country. We won't be mining gold or oil in the near future and there is not enough money to do what we need to do. The best option for many people is a 10k ICE, or a 5K ICE or splash out on a 20k ICE. Cheaper ownership, as they cannot afford 60k EV's anyway. The rest of us who can, i hear price parity is coming, so I don't want to pay 60k+ then its 40k in a few years. Its math and affordability. The pity with the feeble is the Japanese are upping the price, so the feeble essentially goes to them, and the cheaper EV;s are where the climate Change volume comes in and thats basically a dead end now.

RobDickinson

1521 posts

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#2742503 11-Jul-2021 16:21

Roughly a third to a half of all imported cars are new.

You don't get used cars without someone buying a new one.

tdgeek

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#2742506 11-Jul-2021 16:30

RobDickinson: Roughly a third to a half of all imported cars are new.

You don't get used cars without someone buying a new one.

Yep. As you know we have long had an industry where we import pre owned cars. Cheap. When I got back into golf, i needed a second car, motorbike doesn't cut it, 2010 Fit Mugen, 60,000km with an English screen, $8.5k, cheap as chips. Many more can buy ore owned than new. Volume wise thats where the climate change benefit is. In the NZ case they were bought new in Japan, and they come here at a great price.

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2742526 11-Jul-2021 17:49

mattwnz:

Don't petrol cars have a potentially longer life though? In 15 years time, you will still get about the same range from the BMW filling it up with gas, as you would when it was new. The same wouldn't apply with a battery powered EV would it? Likewise is it even economic to replace batteries on EVs? A 15 year EV is probably worth very little when factoring in needing to replace the battery. Whereas a 15 year old petrol car should still have an okay value.

I've mentioned this a number of times now, but, there are many Tesla's in the US and Europe that have over 500,000km on a single pack while still having over 90% of the factory capacity left in the pack. ICE vehicles lose efficiency/range as they age as well, though. A modern ICE is also super complicated now, mostly to milk out as much performance as possible while also adhering to stricter emissions standards. I think you'd be very lucky to see a modern BMW, Mercedes or Audi reach a 15 year lifespan

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RobDickinson

1521 posts

Uber Geek

#2742528 11-Jul-2021 17:54

There's an S in Australia passed 400,000km on its original brake pads, 10% battery loss, $5k total spent on it.

The S is a more complicated vehicle top

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NzBeagle

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#2742580 11-Jul-2021 18:19

What impacts the vehicle more, KMs or time. I wonder if it's the latter with these early models based on the basement prices for Nissan Leaf examples that their ICE comparisons would hold better. Different way of evaluating a vehicle perhaps, but as the tech improves, hopefully we'll see EVs hold their value against ICE, in a similar manner we're seeing price parity. And/or battery replacement or refurbishment becomes economically viable.

mattwnz

20111 posts

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#2742581 11-Jul-2021 18:27

Obraik:
mattwnz:

Don't petrol cars have a potentially longer life though? In 15 years time, you will still get about the same range from the BMW filling it up with gas, as you would when it was new. The same wouldn't apply with a battery powered EV would it? Likewise is it even economic to replace batteries on EVs? A 15 year EV is probably worth very little when factoring in needing to replace the battery. Whereas a 15 year old petrol car should still have an okay value.

I've mentioned this a number of times now, but, there are many Tesla's in the US and Europe that have over 500,000km on a single pack while still having over 90% of the factory capacity left in the pack. ICE vehicles lose efficiency/range as they age as well, though. A modern ICE is also super complicated now, mostly to milk out as much performance as possible while also adhering to stricter emissions standards. I think you'd be very lucky to see a modern BMW, Mercedes or Audi reach a 15 year lifespan

Most Japanese cars though can easily reach 15 to 20 years. I don't think distance is so much of an issue, compared to time, as the batteries age. NZs car fleet is very old on average. We don't really have the data on how many years an EV is usable for over the very long term. But battery technology is improving and costs going down . But imo they also need to make it easy and cheap to replace the batteries, and there needs to be an incentive for manufactures to do this.

Batman

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#2742584 11-Jul-2021 18:46

RobDickinson: There's an S in Australia passed 400,000km on its original brake pads, 10% battery loss, $5k total spent on it.

The S is a more complicated vehicle top

wow that is so cool.

i have a question - if you live far away from one of the 4 Tesla service centers .... how do you get your car checked up if you have any issues?

also i can't live with doing everything on the ipad. i need dials and buttons.

RobDickinson

1521 posts

Uber Geek

#2742585 11-Jul-2021 18:48

Tesla have mobile service techs that come to you, they can fix most things but if its big (battery /motor related etc) they'll flatbed the car in.

There's also a fair few approved repair shops around too

RobDickinson

1521 posts

Uber Geek

#2742588 11-Jul-2021 18:51

Batman:
also i can't live with doing everything on the ipad. i need dials and buttons.

Sure. There's dials and buttons on the wheel and 170+ voice commands etc and most stuff is set once against your profile and forget but no ones going to force you to drive one.

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2742704 11-Jul-2021 19:59

mattwnz:

Most Japanese cars though can easily reach 15 to 20 years. I don't think distance is so much of an issue, compared to time, as the batteries age. NZs car fleet is very old on average. We don't really have the data on how many years an EV is usable for over the very long term. But battery technology is improving and costs going down . But imo they also need to make it easy and cheap to replace the batteries, and there needs to be an incentive for manufactures to do this.

Most of the wear on a battery comes from charge cycles. A car doing 500,000km+ on a single pack is a good indication of how many charge cycles it's good for. However, pack replacements will come down as battery costs naturally come down too. Packs from wrecks are also a possibility as there are more EVs around.

I'm dubious on modern Japanese vehicles having a greater lifespan than their European competitors. They're all trying to do the same thing.

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jarledb

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#2742831 11-Jul-2021 22:55

Batman:

also i can't live with doing everything on the ipad. i need dials and buttons.

Tesla is pretty out there when what you have to do via the screen, but other manufacturers are going that way too. So soon you won't be able to deal with a modern car if you have to have physical dials and buttons.

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Batman

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#2742832 11-Jul-2021 23:01

hopefully my ICE will last until they decide to give me some buttons!

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