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RUKI
1151 posts

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  #1753350 2-Apr-2017 19:11
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What never stops to amaze me is the fact that:

 

So many people are so impatient nowadays to wait to come home and only then to check their emails, texts or social media messages - they are so impatient that they are risking their and everyone's lives and stare at their smartphones while driving ....

 

But if they are driving EV - they are keen to wait for couple of hours to charge it.

 

Where is the logic?


Linuxluver

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  #1753373 2-Apr-2017 20:21
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RUKI:

 

What never stops to amaze me is the fact that:

 

So many people are so impatient nowadays to wait to come home and only then to check their emails, texts or social media messages - they are so impatient that they are risking their and everyone's lives and stare at their smartphones while driving ....

 

But if they are driving EV - they are keen to wait for couple of hours to charge it.

 

Where is the logic?

 

 

Couple of hours?

My LEAF charges from 20% to 80% in 20 minutes or less at a fast charger. On a road trip that's barely time to grab a quick meal and use the loo. 

If anything, driving an EV tends to reveal how time is wasted in hurry-hurry on the way to where you're going. Yes, I stop and charge for 20 mins every couple of hours....and I've found I don't get as tired and when I arrive, I'm actually feeling pretty good. :-)  

 

It's a different logic....and I've found it to be a better one. 

 

 





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frednz
1434 posts

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  #1753565 3-Apr-2017 09:41
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Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

...

 

 

 

As a potential purchaser, what I learned from the article was that, if I owned the Ioniq, I would allow for a range of no more than 150km if charging stations were not readily available along the way! However, I guess that experienced pure EV owners might regard this as a bit too conservative and that they might regard it as a challenge to maximise range! And after a year or so, I guess owners have to allow for the normal depletion of the battery's range, even though this might be quite small in the first couple of years (a point to be taken into account when buying a second-hand EV).

 

Fred 

 

 

That's a prudent approach and I'd probably be right there with you doing the same with an unfamiliar car. 

Also bare in mind you can stop for an hour or two any most campgrounds and charge up at 16amp for $2-$5......which can be a gap-fillers if you're not too sure about the route.

I'll be doing that between Greymouth and Christchurch. Definitely charging for 2-3 hours at Jacksons Point.....and may have to stop at Springfield as well as it looks VERY close trying to get from Jacksons Point to Christchurch......even if I only average 80kph.  

 

 

Good luck, sounds like a great trip and perhaps challenging using an EV!

 

I recently came across this interesting article about what can happen if the computer software in your EV overstates the range that is actually available to the vehicle. It shows why a prudent approach for new owners might be desirable, because even the BMW i3 doesn't always get the range estimate accurate enough as can be seen from this quote:

 

"A recent software bug has cropped up that seems to be affecting many of the early build and higher mileage i3s that are mostly driven by the early adopters. The problem causes the car to go into reduced power mode, or in some cases shut down without warning when the display shows about 5% - 6% battery remaining."

 

"A simple explanation of the problem is that the affected cars are incorrectly reading the battery's state of charge (SOC), and slightly overestimating it. This doesn't present any real problem unless you discharge the battery to well under 10%. At such a low state of charge, it's very important to have as accurate of a reading as possible, since every percent counts when you're trying to make a destination. Calculating the precise state of charge of a battery is very difficult, and with all EVs, the displayed SOC is a close approximation of the actual SOC, it's not a perfectly accurate value."

 

Fred


frednz
1434 posts

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  #1753568 3-Apr-2017 09:48
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frednz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

...

 

 

 

As a potential purchaser, what I learned from the article was that, if I owned the Ioniq, I would allow for a range of no more than 150km if charging stations were not readily available along the way! However, I guess that experienced pure EV owners might regard this as a bit too conservative and that they might regard it as a challenge to maximise range! And after a year or so, I guess owners have to allow for the normal depletion of the battery's range, even though this might be quite small in the first couple of years (a point to be taken into account when buying a second-hand EV).

 

Fred 

 

 

That's a prudent approach and I'd probably be right there with you doing the same with an unfamiliar car. 

Also bare in mind you can stop for an hour or two any most campgrounds and charge up at 16amp for $2-$5......which can be a gap-fillers if you're not too sure about the route.

I'll be doing that between Greymouth and Christchurch. Definitely charging for 2-3 hours at Jacksons Point.....and may have to stop at Springfield as well as it looks VERY close trying to get from Jacksons Point to Christchurch......even if I only average 80kph.  

 

 

Good luck, sounds like a great trip and perhaps challenging using an EV!

 

I recently came across this interesting article about what can happen if the computer software in your EV overstates the range that is actually available to the vehicle. It shows why a prudent approach for new owners might be desirable, because even the BMW i3 doesn't always get the range estimate accurate enough as can be seen from these quotes:

 

"A recent software bug has cropped up that seems to be affecting many of the early build and higher mileage i3s that are mostly driven by the early adopters. The problem causes the car to go into reduced power mode, or in some cases shut down without warning when the display shows about 5% - 6% battery remaining."

 

"A simple explanation of the problem is that the affected cars are incorrectly reading the battery's state of charge (SOC), and slightly overestimating it. This doesn't present any real problem unless you discharge the battery to well under 10%. At such a low state of charge, it's very important to have as accurate of a reading as possible, since every percent counts when you're trying to make a destination. Calculating the precise state of charge of a battery is very difficult, and with all EVs, the displayed SOC is a close approximation of the actual SOC, it's not a perfectly accurate value."

 

Fred

 


Linuxluver

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  #1756573 4-Apr-2017 20:07
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frednz:

 

 

 

Good luck, sounds like a great trip and perhaps challenging using an EV!

 

I recently came across this interesting article about what can happen if the computer software in your EV overstates the range that is actually available to the vehicle. It shows why a prudent approach for new owners might be desirable, because even the BMW i3 doesn't always get the range estimate accurate enough as can be seen from this quote:

 

"A recent software bug has cropped up that seems to be affecting many of the early build and higher mileage i3s that are mostly driven by the early adopters. The problem causes the car to go into reduced power mode, or in some cases shut down without warning when the display shows about 5% - 6% battery remaining."

 

"A simple explanation of the problem is that the affected cars are incorrectly reading the battery's state of charge (SOC), and slightly overestimating it. This doesn't present any real problem unless you discharge the battery to well under 10%. At such a low state of charge, it's very important to have as accurate of a reading as possible, since every percent counts when you're trying to make a destination. Calculating the precise state of charge of a battery is very difficult, and with all EVs, the displayed SOC is a close approximation of the actual SOC, it's not a perfectly accurate value."

 

Fred

 

 

Thanks! :-)  

Good point, Fred. The battery status is an estimate. 

Roll the dice if you get too low. :-)  





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


frednz
1434 posts

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  #1756856 5-Apr-2017 10:24
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Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

Good luck, sounds like a great trip and perhaps challenging using an EV!

 

I recently came across this interesting article about what can happen if the computer software in your EV overstates the range that is actually available to the vehicle. It shows why a prudent approach for new owners might be desirable, because even the BMW i3 doesn't always get the range estimate accurate enough as can be seen from this quote:

 

"A recent software bug has cropped up that seems to be affecting many of the early build and higher mileage i3s that are mostly driven by the early adopters. The problem causes the car to go into reduced power mode, or in some cases shut down without warning when the display shows about 5% - 6% battery remaining."

 

"A simple explanation of the problem is that the affected cars are incorrectly reading the battery's state of charge (SOC), and slightly overestimating it. This doesn't present any real problem unless you discharge the battery to well under 10%. At such a low state of charge, it's very important to have as accurate of a reading as possible, since every percent counts when you're trying to make a destination. Calculating the precise state of charge of a battery is very difficult, and with all EVs, the displayed SOC is a close approximation of the actual SOC, it's not a perfectly accurate value."

 

Fred

 

 

Thanks! :-)  

Good point, Fred. The battery status is an estimate. 

Roll the dice if you get too low. :-)  

 

 

I see that, recently, the BMW i3 range extender model (REx) has been going through some turbulent times.

 

Firstly, BMW has recalled 19,000 i3 REx vehicles because of a possible fuel vapour leak.

 

Secondly, a national class action lawsuit has been filed against BMW for alleged defects in the BMW i3 REx vehicles. This article explains that:

 

“BMW claims that the Range Extender "doubles your electric driving range" from the vehicle's standard 81-mile range.

 

The lawsuit alleges that in practice, however, when the gasoline engine kicks in, it doesn't produce enough power to prevent a dramatic decrease in the vehicle's performance. As alleged, if the car is under any kind of significant load (such as going up a hill, or loaded with passengers), the speed of the car will dramatically decrease as the battery charge diminishes. The lawsuit alleges that this can result in the car slowing to speeds of 45 miles per hour on the freeway, without warning.”

 

I don’t think I would be put off buying the i3 REx because of these problems. I guess most REx i3 owners would be aware of the limitations that occur when the range extender is being used and would drive the vehicle carefully with a view to safely reaching the next charging station.

 

However, perhaps there is a case for not paying the extra to buy the REx model and just buying the pure electric version – what do you think?

 

The pros and cons of buying the REx model are discussed in this article.

 

Thanks

 

Fred


Linuxluver

5615 posts

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  #1756901 5-Apr-2017 11:36
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frednz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

Good luck, sounds like a great trip and perhaps challenging using an EV!

 

I recently came across this interesting article about what can happen if the computer software in your EV overstates the range that is actually available to the vehicle. It shows why a prudent approach for new owners might be desirable, because even the BMW i3 doesn't always get the range estimate accurate enough as can be seen from this quote:

 

"A recent software bug has cropped up that seems to be affecting many of the early build and higher mileage i3s that are mostly driven by the early adopters. The problem causes the car to go into reduced power mode, or in some cases shut down without warning when the display shows about 5% - 6% battery remaining."

 

"A simple explanation of the problem is that the affected cars are incorrectly reading the battery's state of charge (SOC), and slightly overestimating it. This doesn't present any real problem unless you discharge the battery to well under 10%. At such a low state of charge, it's very important to have as accurate of a reading as possible, since every percent counts when you're trying to make a destination. Calculating the precise state of charge of a battery is very difficult, and with all EVs, the displayed SOC is a close approximation of the actual SOC, it's not a perfectly accurate value."

 

Fred

 

 

Thanks! :-)  

Good point, Fred. The battery status is an estimate. 

Roll the dice if you get too low. :-)  

 

 

I see that, recently, the BMW i3 range extender model (REx) has been going through some turbulent times.

 

Firstly, BMW has recalled 19,000 i3 REx vehicles because of a possible fuel vapour leak.

 

Secondly, a national class action lawsuit has been filed against BMW for alleged defects in the BMW i3 REx vehicles. This article explains that:

 

“BMW claims that the Range Extender "doubles your electric driving range" from the vehicle's standard 81-mile range.

 

The lawsuit alleges that in practice, however, when the gasoline engine kicks in, it doesn't produce enough power to prevent a dramatic decrease in the vehicle's performance. As alleged, if the car is under any kind of significant load (such as going up a hill, or loaded with passengers), the speed of the car will dramatically decrease as the battery charge diminishes. The lawsuit alleges that this can result in the car slowing to speeds of 45 miles per hour on the freeway, without warning.”

 

I don’t think I would be put off buying the i3 REx because of these problems. I guess most REx i3 owners would be aware of the limitations that occur when the range extender is being used and would drive the vehicle carefully with a view to safely reaching the next charging station.

 

However, perhaps there is a case for not paying the extra to buy the REx model and just buying the pure electric version – what do you think?

 

The pros and cons of buying the REx model are discussed in this article.

 

Thanks

 

Fred

 



My understanding of the REX is you can choose a level of battery it can maintain. If you leave it until it's nearly empty and you're doing 100kph on the motorway....yeah. Problems. 

But I have been told it's useful to the set the REX to kick in at 75% or 50%......so you keep drawing the battery, but the REX is back-filling it. Might not be the rate you're drawing on it......but in the broader zone of remaining range, the REX would stand a much better chance of keeping up.

But it is just an extender........if the battery is allowed to empty, it doesn't replace it. It justs tries to keep up with recharging it.  The lawsuit sounds like someone who couldn't be bothered understanding how the thing works calling a lawyer to compensate for their personal #FAIL.  





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


 
 
 
 


MikeAqua
6058 posts

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  #1756983 5-Apr-2017 13:00
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Linuxluver:

 

The lawsuit sounds like someone who couldn't be bothered understanding how the thing works calling a lawyer to compensate for their personal #FAIL.  

 

 

Class action lawsuits for product defects are reasonably common in the US. There have been couple against outboard manufacturers for example, on the basis certain components of specific outboards are defective and if they fail can expose passengers to serious danger.

 

On the positive side punitive damages from these sorts of cases keep manufacturers on their toes.

 

On the negative side it makes manufacturers less inclined to admit to significant defects - because they risk a class action suit if they do.





Mike


frednz
1434 posts

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  #1756988 5-Apr-2017 13:28
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Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

Good luck, sounds like a great trip and perhaps challenging using an EV!

 

I recently came across this interesting article about what can happen if the computer software in your EV overstates the range that is actually available to the vehicle. It shows why a prudent approach for new owners might be desirable, because even the BMW i3 doesn't always get the range estimate accurate enough as can be seen from this quote:

 

"A recent software bug has cropped up that seems to be affecting many of the early build and higher mileage i3s that are mostly driven by the early adopters. The problem causes the car to go into reduced power mode, or in some cases shut down without warning when the display shows about 5% - 6% battery remaining."

 

"A simple explanation of the problem is that the affected cars are incorrectly reading the battery's state of charge (SOC), and slightly overestimating it. This doesn't present any real problem unless you discharge the battery to well under 10%. At such a low state of charge, it's very important to have as accurate of a reading as possible, since every percent counts when you're trying to make a destination. Calculating the precise state of charge of a battery is very difficult, and with all EVs, the displayed SOC is a close approximation of the actual SOC, it's not a perfectly accurate value."

 

Fred

 

 

Thanks! :-)  

Good point, Fred. The battery status is an estimate. 

Roll the dice if you get too low. :-)  

 

 

I see that, recently, the BMW i3 range extender model (REx) has been going through some turbulent times.

 

Firstly, BMW has recalled 19,000 i3 REx vehicles because of a possible fuel vapour leak.

 

Secondly, a national class action lawsuit has been filed against BMW for alleged defects in the BMW i3 REx vehicles. This article explains that:

 

“BMW claims that the Range Extender "doubles your electric driving range" from the vehicle's standard 81-mile range.

 

The lawsuit alleges that in practice, however, when the gasoline engine kicks in, it doesn't produce enough power to prevent a dramatic decrease in the vehicle's performance. As alleged, if the car is under any kind of significant load (such as going up a hill, or loaded with passengers), the speed of the car will dramatically decrease as the battery charge diminishes. The lawsuit alleges that this can result in the car slowing to speeds of 45 miles per hour on the freeway, without warning.”

 

I don’t think I would be put off buying the i3 REx because of these problems. I guess most REx i3 owners would be aware of the limitations that occur when the range extender is being used and would drive the vehicle carefully with a view to safely reaching the next charging station.

 

However, perhaps there is a case for not paying the extra to buy the REx model and just buying the pure electric version – what do you think?

 

The pros and cons of buying the REx model are discussed in this article.

 

Thanks

 

Fred

 



My understanding of the REX is you can choose a level of battery it can maintain. If you leave it until it's nearly empty and you're doing 100kph on the motorway....yeah. Problems. 

But I have been told it's useful to the set the REX to kick in at 75% or 50%......so you keep drawing the battery, but the REX is back-filling it. Might not be the rate you're drawing on it......but in the broader zone of remaining range, the REX would stand a much better chance of keeping up.

But it is just an extender........if the battery is allowed to empty, it doesn't replace it. It justs tries to keep up with recharging it.  The lawsuit sounds like someone who couldn't be bothered understanding how the thing works calling a lawyer to compensate for their personal #FAIL.  

 

 

Thanks for your reply. Yes, it explains in this article that:

 

"BMW designed the software on the i3 to allow the customer to manually turn on the range extender once the state of charge was below 75%, recognizing the occasional need to hold back extra energy in the battery pack for later in the journey when they would need it. By selecting this "Hold Mode", the range extender will turn on and hold the state of charge at that level, or close to it, depending on the current power draw."

 

BUT ... "in order to comply with the BEVx rules, BMW modified the software on all cars sold in the US. This modification eliminated the hold mode option. The range extender therefore only turns on when the state of charge is 6.5%, and the driver has no control over it. They also had to limit the amount of gasoline available from 2.4 gallons to 1.9 gallons to make sure that the all electric range was less than the range while running on gasoline, another criteria of the BEVx classification."

 

So, I guess in New Zealand, there's no reason why the range extender can't be set to kick in when the state of charge is below 75%, which would be the sensible thing to do if you are driving a long distance before you want to charge the battery at a charging station etc?

 

 

 

 


Linuxluver

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  #1757299 5-Apr-2017 22:44
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frednz:

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply. Yes, it explains in this article that:

 

"BMW designed the software on the i3 to allow the customer to manually turn on the range extender once the state of charge was below 75%, recognizing the occasional need to hold back extra energy in the battery pack for later in the journey when they would need it. By selecting this "Hold Mode", the range extender will turn on and hold the state of charge at that level, or close to it, depending on the current power draw."

 

BUT ... "in order to comply with the BEVx rules, BMW modified the software on all cars sold in the US. This modification eliminated the hold mode option. The range extender therefore only turns on when the state of charge is 6.5%, and the driver has no control over it. They also had to limit the amount of gasoline available from 2.4 gallons to 1.9 gallons to make sure that the all electric range was less than the range while running on gasoline, another criteria of the BEVx classification."

 

So, I guess in New Zealand, there's no reason why the range extender can't be set to kick in when the state of charge is below 75%, which would be the sensible thing to do if you are driving a long distance before you want to charge the battery at a charging station etc?

 



Aaah. Thanks for that.

I didn't know they crippled it in the US. I've only seen NZ and European videos about it and they all mentioned the hold option is a major feature of the range extender. I can see how the US rules might see a car that start burning petrol after only 25% of battery being used would make it a sort of pluggable hybrid rather than a battery electric car. Their regulations (depending on which state) probably could treat it differently for subsidies, etc.

No such issues in NZ and none of those BMW i3 car here as they would all be left hand drive. The recall you mentioned in a previous post also related only to US i3s. 

  





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


Scott3
1146 posts

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  #1757305 5-Apr-2017 23:00
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Yeah, They USA i3 REX has been crippled for tax / compliance reasons.

The rest of the world doesn't have that issue.

Problem in the USA is if you run the battery down to 6.5% (you can't get the REX to start before then) then drive up a mountain at 130km/h (those speeds are common there), the REX isn't powerful enough to keep up with the vehicle's power consumption, and the 6.5% buffer isn't sufficient.

In any other part of the world, you can simply turn on the REX early in the journey (you can start it at any point under 75% state of charge), and the battery buffer will be plenty. Given our highest speed limit is 100km/h in NZ, it is even less of an issue here.

Nothing to stop you doing a massive trip on the REX in NZ (other than the hassle of only having a 9L fuel tank).

It is interesting to note that the i3's can be "coded" to add features, including hold charge mode in markets where it is not included by standard. 


frednz
1434 posts

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  #1757390 6-Apr-2017 09:59
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Scott3:

 

Yeah, They USA i3 REX has been crippled for tax / compliance reasons.

The rest of the world doesn't have that issue.

Problem in the USA is if you run the battery down to 6.5% (you can't get the REX to start before then) then drive up a mountain at 130km/h (those speeds are common there), the REX isn't powerful enough to keep up with the vehicle's power consumption, and the 6.5% buffer isn't sufficient.

In any other part of the world, you can simply turn on the REX early in the journey (you can start it at any point under 75% state of charge), and the battery buffer will be plenty. Given our highest speed limit is 100km/h in NZ, it is even less of an issue here.

Nothing to stop you doing a massive trip on the REX in NZ (other than the hassle of only having a 9L fuel tank).

It is interesting to note that the i3's can be "coded" to add features, including hold charge mode in markets where it is not included by standard. 

 

 

Thanks for your replies, they are very helpful. I guess if you were doing a massive trip on the REX in NZ, you would want to start the REX at a battery level of 75% and try and maintain this level if you are unable to charge the battery at a charging station etc.

 

If you did this, I suppose the battery level could drop to say 50% (or less) even if the REX has been on all the time. In other words, how likely is it on a long trip, driving often at 100 km/h, that the battery could be maintained at 75% using REX all the time?

 

The other point I have noticed about the i3 is that the small tyres often come in for criticism, as discussed here.

 

It was interesting to see that electric cars were discussed on last night's "Project" on TV3. The Nissan Leaf was the centre of the discussion and it came across that buying and owning an EV was pretty easy and that there was nothing wrong with buying really old EVs as their batteries would hardly have deteriorated at all. Range wasn't regarded as a problem so long as the car could get you to work and back home ok (all of which is rather debatable to say the least).

 

Regards

 

Fred


afe66
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  #1757404 6-Apr-2017 10:48
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Good to see 'The Project's coverage of ev.
Especially the pointed comment about Nissan NZ should be doing more!!

Find the 'hip' overly cheerful delivery annoying though. Must be grumpy old man now.

Bit concerned about the comment that al now do at least 150km though..



A.




jarledb
Webhead
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  #1758215 7-Apr-2017 16:37
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afe66: Good to see 'The Project's coverage of ev.
Especially the pointed comment about Nissan NZ should be doing more!!

 

For those that have Facebook, there is a video up on The Project NZs Facebook page

 

BTW: The reason Nissan and others don't have a chance to sell EVs in NZ is that there are no subsidies in NZ and the used EVs being imported have already been subsidised.


old3eyes
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  #1758220 7-Apr-2017 16:54
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Brief video revue on the Chevy Bolt 





Regards,

Old3eyes


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