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RobDickinson
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  #2836196 21-Dec-2021 08:25
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yeah jalponik no thanks


 
 
 

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Batman
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  #2836202 21-Dec-2021 08:47
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RobDickinson:

godz thats ugly. I guess it helps share the design with Subaru.



That might mean high depreciation and good news for me... Need an EV with the range (600km wltp = 300km for the way I drive), 4wd, and clearance (not much) to get up ski fields...

SaltyNZ
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  #2836219 21-Dec-2021 09:21
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Generally speaking the more cars on the market the better for everyone. Not really my idea of aesthetics either but I currently happen to be in the happy position of being able to be choosy this time. Next time I might not be!





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Obraik
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  #2836221 21-Dec-2021 09:24
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I mean, people bought the Nissan Juke...so everything eventually finds an owner





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SaltyNZ
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  #2836222 21-Dec-2021 09:27
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Obraik:

 

I mean, people bought the Nissan Juke...so everything eventually finds an owner

 

 

 

 

The new models are not quite as dire but the original ones looked like the bastard love child of a cane toad and a HummVee.





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kingdragonfly
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  #2836223 21-Dec-2021 09:36
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Batman:

meanwhile ... https://jalopnik.com/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-causes-accident-with-model-1848201350



On the other side of the coin, if I could choose the safest car to drive into a ditch, it would be a Tesla.

Note I don't consider Jim Cramer a serious financial journalist; it's just newstertainment.

Inside Evs Jim Cramer On Hypocrisy Surrounding Tesla's FSD Beta: Insight

There are hundreds of car crashes every day, but if there's an incident related to Tesla's tech, it's huge news.

The Verge: Tesla’s Model Y is the company’s latest five-star safety rated car

Another safety sweep for Tesla

RobDickinson
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  #2836225 21-Dec-2021 09:49
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I find the talk about Autopilot and FSD beta quite confusing. 

 

 

 

People dont seem to be able to cope with imperfect automated systems that improve over time but absolutely fine with imperfect humans who get tired, drunk, or have other issues and dont improve over time.

 

 

 

Its usually moronic media outlets like Jalponik with agendas to push attempting to harm the transition to evs and specifically tesla

 

 

 

Its akin to anti mask/anti vac people




frankv
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  #2836237 21-Dec-2021 10:18
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Linuxluver:

An EV with a large battery (75kwh +) will have 450km range at least. After 10 years it may have 60kWh available battery and 360km range at least. Assuming 80% capacity. So on a 600km trip you might have to spend an extra 20 minutes charging. Otherwise, the car is exactly the same.

 

Well, no, after 10 years the car isn't exactly the same... the upholstery and suspension and brakes and bodywork are worn, in fact the whole car is a bit tired. In exactly the same way that a 120,000km 10yo ICE car is tired, except that the EV motors are probably less tired than the ICE's engine. Not many people keep cars for 10 years, so it's not a terribly important issue. More important is how much the car will depreciate in 3 years. That *may* in turn depend a bit on the available battery after 3 years, but not very much. The people who will be spending that extra 20 minutes charging 10 years from now will likely be poorer people than the first owner, consequently do fewer long trips, and put less value on their time.

 

 


Batman
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  #2836240 21-Dec-2021 10:23
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frankv:

 

Linuxluver:

An EV with a large battery (75kwh +) will have 450km range at least. After 10 years it may have 60kWh available battery and 360km range at least. Assuming 80% capacity. So on a 600km trip you might have to spend an extra 20 minutes charging. Otherwise, the car is exactly the same.

 

Well, no, after 10 years the car isn't exactly the same... the upholstery and suspension and brakes and bodywork are worn, in fact the whole car is a bit tired. In exactly the same way that a 120,000km 10yo ICE car is tired, except that the EV motors are probably less tired than the ICE's engine. Not many people keep cars for 10 years, so it's not a terribly important issue. More important is how much the car will depreciate in 3 years. That *may* in turn depend a bit on the available battery after 3 years, but not very much. The people who will be spending that extra 20 minutes charging 10 years from now will likely be poorer people than the first owner, consequently do fewer long trips, and put less value on their time.

 

 

 

 

umm all my cars are nearing 10 years old .. in fact they range between 8 - 15 years


RobDickinson
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  #2836241 21-Dec-2021 10:24
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frankv:Not many people keep cars for 10 years

 

 

 

 

The average age of cars in NZ is 15 years. I've had a subaru that old and over 120,000km and the car mechanically was anything but tired.


Linuxluver

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  #2836249 21-Dec-2021 10:33
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frankv:

Linuxluver:

An EV with a large battery (75kwh +) will have 450km range at least. After 10 years it may have 60kWh available battery and 360km range at least. Assuming 80% capacity. So on a 600km trip you might have to spend an extra 20 minutes charging. Otherwise, the car is exactly the same.


Well, no, after 10 years the car isn't exactly the same... the upholstery and suspension and brakes and bodywork are worn, in fact the whole car is a bit tired. In exactly the same way that a 120,000km 10yo ICE car is tired, except that the EV motors are probably less tired than the ICE's engine. Not many people keep cars for 10 years, so it's not a terribly important issue. More important is how much the car will depreciate in 3 years. That *may* in turn depend a bit on the available battery after 3 years, but not very much. The people who will be spending that extra 20 minutes charging 10 years from now will likely be poorer people than the first owner, consequently do fewer long trips, and put less value on their time.


 



I'll agree. :-)




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HarmLessSolutions
613 posts

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  #2836252 21-Dec-2021 10:40
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frankv:

 

Linuxluver:

An EV with a large battery (75kwh +) will have 450km range at least. After 10 years it may have 60kWh available battery and 360km range at least. Assuming 80% capacity. So on a 600km trip you might have to spend an extra 20 minutes charging. Otherwise, the car is exactly the same.

 

Well, no, after 10 years the car isn't exactly the same... the upholstery and suspension and brakes and bodywork are worn, in fact the whole car is a bit tired. In exactly the same way that a 120,000km 10yo ICE car is tired, except that the EV motors are probably less tired than the ICE's engine. Not many people keep cars for 10 years, so it's not a terribly important issue. More important is how much the car will depreciate in 3 years. That *may* in turn depend a bit on the available battery after 3 years, but not very much. The people who will be spending that extra 20 minutes charging 10 years from now will likely be poorer people than the first owner, consequently do fewer long trips, and put less value on their time.

 

 

 

Our Leaf is 9 1/2 years old and we intend to update the battery next year. Our Commodore is close to 20 years old with >260,000 on it and we intend running it into the ground until a suitable EV replacement becomes available in our price range.

 

Your 3 year timeframe regarding battery availability is puzzling. What issues do you expect to be seeing in a 3 year old battery? Especially so as most manufacturers have battery warranties that run to 5 years.





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RobDickinson
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  #2836253 21-Dec-2021 10:42
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My model 3 is over 2 years old and.. checking trademe.... theres 2 total for sale... out of about 4000 in nz.

 

 

 

 

 

if I was buying a new expensive fossil car I would be real worried about depreciation


HarmLessSolutions
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  #2836256 21-Dec-2021 10:45
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RobDickinson:

 

My model 3 is over 2 years old and.. checking trademe.... theres 2 total for sale... out of about 4000 in nz.

 

 

 

 

 

if I was buying a new expensive fossil car I would be real worried about depreciation

 

Doubly so for hybrids. Once battery tech improves beyond most people's range expectations they will become white elephants.





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antonknee
1133 posts

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  #2836257 21-Dec-2021 10:46
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RobDickinson:

 

I find the talk about Autopilot and FSD beta quite confusing. 

 

 

 

People dont seem to be able to cope with imperfect automated systems that improve over time but absolutely fine with imperfect humans who get tired, drunk, or have other issues and dont improve over time.

 

 

I agree it's slightly odd and confusing. I think the thing is that people are willing to make allowances for human nature (because we are ourselves human, and understand human factors and that "mistakes happen"). However people don't make this same allowance for machines and automation. 

 

More specifically with Tesla, I think people are probably harder on Tesla because they're just so arrogant and Musk even more so. There's possibly an element of tall poppy syndrome to this as well IMO.


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