EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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1516 posts

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#2836258 21-Dec-2021 10:50

arrogant

having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

I dont think Musk is arrogant at all. He is direct and doesnt sugar coat anything, but says what he thinks and this is almost always correct, and I doubt anyone is questioning his ability right now.

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SaltyNZ

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#2836260 21-Dec-2021 11:03

The Swift I replaced with the Leaf was 18 years old with 320,000km on it when it died. The Pajero we kept, which died last year, as 20 years old with 310,000km on it. The Leaf we are replacing with the Model 3 when it arrives is 7 years old with 145,000km on it, and the hand-me-down Odyssey we have as a spare second car in place of the Pajero is 17 years old and has 171,000km on it.

If the Leaf battery wasn't so crap I'd be keeping it as it is otherwise in fine condition, but since we live rural it can only just keep up with a trip to Albany and back now in summer, and by winter I expect it won't make it anymore which would make it less than ideal to provide to kids to drive to after-school jobs.

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SaltyNZ

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#2836266 21-Dec-2021 11:11

RobDickinson:

arrogant

having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

I dont think Musk is arrogant at all. He is direct and doesnt sugar coat anything, but says what he thinks and this is almost always correct, and I doubt anyone is questioning his ability right now.

Just because you're right doesn't mean you're not still arrogant. He's a genius alright, but he's not a genius engineer, he's a genius at attracting genius engineers and inspiring them to work insane hours for him. Personally I think he's a bit of a dick, but if I let "Is the CEO a dick?" be the decider on what I purchased I'd have a pretty limited life. I certainly can't argue with his success, but I think you can make a decent argument for a certain amount of arrogance.

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kingdragonfly

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#2836275 21-Dec-2021 11:38

SaltyNZ: ...If the Leaf battery wasn't so crap I'd be keeping it as it is otherwise in fine condition, but since we live rural...

Since you're in a rural location, and you have a LEAF with pretty low resale value, you may consider giving the batteries a second life as a powerwall / solar powered batterypack.

Google: "leaf" "solar" "batteries" OR "battery" OR "batterywall" OR "battery wall"

Off subject, maybe this is what they should be doing in Texas right now in a big way; it's winter in Texas again, and 151 died last winter because of power outages, mostly due to frozen valves at fossil fuel fired power plants.

Canary Media: Used EV batteries are storing solar power at grid scale — and making money at it

SaltyNZ

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#2836279 21-Dec-2021 11:41

kingdragonfly:

Since you're in a rural location, and you have a LEAF with pretty low resale value, you may consider giving the batteries a second life as a powerwall / solar powered batterypack.

Google: "leaf" "solar" "batteries" OR "battery" OR "batterywall" OR "battery wall"

We have someone coming in late January to talk to us about a solar installation and we will want batteries - since we will have another EV to charge - so it's something I'll keep in mind but it would need to be saving us around $6000-$8000 to break even, as I think I can get something around that range as a private sale on the Leaf.

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frankv

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#2836283 21-Dec-2021 11:51

HarmLessSolutions:

Your 3 year timeframe regarding battery availability is puzzling. What issues do you expect to be seeing in a 3 year old battery? Especially so as most manufacturers have battery warranties that run to 5 years.

I don't expect to see issues in a 3yo battery. The 3 year timeframe is my understanding (although I haven't been able to find stats to support it) of the average length of time that Kiwis keep their cars. I gather that's also about the length of time that fleet vehicles are kept before replacement. If you're only going to keep a new vehicle for 3 years, you have little concern about issues in 10yo batteries. Likewise if you're buying a 3yo vehicle with the expectation of selling it in another 3 years. Perhaps the 3rd average owner, who would be buying a 6yo vehicle and selling at 9 years, would be concerned about the effect of battery issues on his resale value.

RobDickinson

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#2836286 21-Dec-2021 12:01

Every EV sold in NZ has at least an 8 year battery warranty....

antonknee

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#2836296 21-Dec-2021 12:29

RobDickinson:

arrogant

having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

I dont think Musk is arrogant at all. He is direct and doesnt sugar coat anything, but says what he thinks and this is almost always correct, and I doubt anyone is questioning his ability right now.

Remember full self driving was meant to be ferrying people from LA to NY "certainly by the end of the year" something like 5 years ago, self driving was apparently a "solved problem", and we were meant to have autonomous robotaxis a while back. The Cybertruck and the Semi are just vapourware

Personally I think Musk is very arrogant, I love Tesla's products but I really resent Elon and to be honest I also resent some of Tesla's business practices too. I mean look at his comments about that diver and those Thai boys, and his recent comments about Texas vs California.

RobDickinson

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#2836298 21-Dec-2021 12:34

antonknee:

Remember full self driving was meant to be ferrying people from LA to NY "certainly by the end of the year" something like 5 years ago, self driving was apparently a "solved problem", and we were meant to have autonomous robotaxis a while back. The Cybertruck and the Semi are just vapourware

Personally I think Musk is very arrogant, I love Tesla's products but I really resent Elon and to be honest I also resent some of Tesla's business practices too. I mean look at his comments about that diver and those Thai boys, and his recent comments about Texas vs California.

FSD yes has taken longer than said, because its complex, no one else is doing any better (mostly a lot worse). Doing complex things for the first time often takes longer.

As for the Cybertruck and Semi, yeah delayed but hardly vapourware, There are preproduction Semi around, Pepsi is taking delivery of some this month (and have completed install of chargers etc), and a production candidate cybertruck was seen like last week or so.

Elon has always set challenging timelines because thats how you get shit done, unlike some other companies who are setting guidance for 2030 or 2035 etc

hamish225

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#2836305 21-Dec-2021 12:51

RobDickinson:

Every EV sold in NZ has at least an 8 year battery warranty....

Not particularly helpful when the dealers don't want to know about your UK or Japanese warranties when you import a car, that needs to change. given they're the same company and all.

Not everyone can afford the premium of buying a brand new car in NZ.

*Insert big spe*dtest result here*

RobDickinson

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#2836308 21-Dec-2021 12:55

One of the downsides of buying an imported vehicle that would still be under warranty here, like any vehicle. Your money your choice.

The good thing with an EV is the battery health is usually easily found out and accurate to a percentage (and even individual cell voltages on some) so you know exactly what you are getting unlike a fossil car.

SaltyNZ

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#2836326 21-Dec-2021 13:17

RobDickinson:

One of the downsides of buying an imported vehicle that would still be under warranty here, like any vehicle. Your money your choice.

The good thing with an EV is the battery health is usually easily found out and accurate to a percentage (and even individual cell voltages on some) so you know exactly what you are getting unlike a fossil car.

I tend to agree. It's a good way to get more EVs into the hands of drivers. There is still a greater danger of an unwary purchaser buying something they don't fully understand and getting a low range vehicle for too much money (and to be fair, my Leaf is currently up for sale for an unrealistically high price since I still need it for a few months longer) but ultimately it is a case of buyer needs to do their homework as in all other things.

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gzt

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#2836431 21-Dec-2021 16:14

Batman:
RobDickinson: godz thats ugly. I guess it helps share the design with Subaru
That might mean high depreciation and good news for me... Need an EV with the range (600km wltp = 300km for the way I drive), 4wd, and clearance (not much) to get up ski fields...

Clearance looks lower at the front than rear for some reason. This is the company that made Prius one of the most popular cars ever. Looks didnt seem to count much for that market. Competing with Tesla on looks they lose. Anyone replacing a Prius isn't going to care that much. It's a Prius variant.

SaltyNZ

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#2836442 21-Dec-2021 16:29

gzt: This is the company that made Prius one of the most popular cars ever. Looks didnt seem to count much for that market. Competing with Tesla on looks they lose. Anyone replacing a Prius isn't going to care that much. It's a Prius variant.

I mean, sure, I bought a Leaf knowing it was fugly because it was the right thing to do, not because it was cool. So there will definitely be a continuing market for fugly EVs. I just think that, you know, EVs could just look like normal cars if they wanted to. There's no engineering reason why they have to look like they need to be reminded not to eat the paste every morning.

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mudguard

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#2836443 21-Dec-2021 16:31

HarmLessSolutions:

RobDickinson:

My model 3 is over 2 years old and.. checking trademe.... theres 2 total for sale... out of about 4000 in nz.

if I was buying a new expensive fossil car I would be real worried about depreciation

Doubly so for hybrids. Once battery tech improves beyond most people's range expectations they will become white elephants.

I'm not sure. If the Leaf example given about it's range degrading so much that it's almost useless as a car, that was the point I was making. Is that a ten or twenty year old ICE vehicle is probably providing 95% of it's original performance.

My last couple of vehicles depreciated into the ground, I had a Camry, 5 years old, 200,000kms all running at 100kmh an hour. I was offered $4000 as a trade, so I gave it to my parents. My current car will be the same, I've got about 90,000kms in it before I need to change it again. Same thing, it will be worth almost nothing to me, but can you say the same about current EVs? At least my old ICE cars are mechanically excellent value for someone.

Don't get me wrong, I cannot wait until it comes within my reach (in range and price). With my work travel I can't plug in each night, and I can't pull over for an hour each day very easily either.

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