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RunningMan
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  #2915762 18-May-2022 18:56
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For an EV charging network, Jolt have some fundemental concepts about power and energy they need to understand.

 

https://joltcharge.co.nz/jolt-to-roll-out-free-and-fast-electric-vehicle-charging-network-to-cities-across-new-zealand%ef%bf%bc

 

EV drivers will have access to 7kW of free charging per day at JOLT fast chargers,

 

Umm, presumably they mean 7 kWh of free charging.


 
 
 

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Scott3
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  #2915773 18-May-2022 19:52
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RunningMan:

 

Umm, presumably they mean 7 kWh of free charging.

 

 

Yeah, they have cocked up their press release. Pretty embarrassing given their core business is EV charging.

 

Their main website page has the correct unit kWh.

 

https://joltcharge.co.nz/


Scott3
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  #2915781 18-May-2022 20:25
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Charging is fast DC with the free allocation estimated at 50km per day per customer. Handy. I hope they have plans to dedicate some bays as trade only if demand arises.

 

It's 25kW DC. For comparison most DC charging in NZ is 50kW, with a few 350kW "Hyperchargers" now up and running.

 

 

 

Here is a photo of a jolt charger from Adelaide. Interestingly in Sydney all their charges seem to be integrated with those big green power transformer things you see on the roadside.

 

 

 

 

All their Aussie charger installs seem to be single bay, and their Albany Miter 10 render is as well, so no opportunity to reserve bay's here.

 

Their business model is interesting. Primary revenue stream will be from advertising as a little roadside billboard. I think the DC fast EV charging is just the carrot to get business to host their units.

 

Upside for EV owners is that business model allows for cheaper rates than the industry norm (ignoring the free lines company DC chargers). 7kWh free, then a very reasonable 42c/kwh with no time charge. 

Downside for EV owners, is that the focus largely appears to be pleasing the host business. That fee structure will lead to high utilization, which looks both from green cred, and driving potential customers to their door point of view for host businesses. EV owners are quite likely to plug in, and take their bite of free power, even if they don't need charge. But for EV owners who actually need to charge (as opposed to those looking to get $1.40 free power), low utilization chargers (or multi bay chargers) are ideal to reduce the odds of needing to wait for a charge. Combines with the low speed, will make these chargers more like a destination / opportunity charger, and less like the fast chargers we know today. (and frankly I think much cheaper AC chargers which often have multiple bays are adequate as destination chargers)

 

 

 

But all up, I welcome the new market entrant. The more competitors and the more business models the better, even if I am not a big fan of this one. I will still get my account, and take my free power if I happen to be shopping at one of those locations anyway. Also having more chargers around is good diversity for outages etc. (my local charge.net fast charger is currently faulted, and out of service)

 

 

 

 




HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

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  #2915792 18-May-2022 21:34
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RunningMan:

 

For an EV charging network, Jolt have some fundemental concepts about power and energy they need to understand.

 

https://joltcharge.co.nz/jolt-to-roll-out-free-and-fast-electric-vehicle-charging-network-to-cities-across-new-zealand%ef%bf%bc

 

EV drivers will have access to 7kW of free charging per day at JOLT fast chargers,

 

Umm, presumably they mean 7 kWh of free charging.

 

Yeah. Typical lack of mathematical and technical understanding by a keyboard jockey, probably from a journalism background.

 

So how welcome is your typical Jap import Leaf owner going to be when he turns up and hogs the Jolt charger for over 2 hours to get his free 7kWh with a charging rate limited to 3kW?





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Scott3
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  #2915816 18-May-2022 23:20
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

So how welcome is your typical Jap import Leaf owner going to be when he turns up and hogs the Jolt charger for over 2 hours to get his free 7kWh with a charging rate limited to 3kW?

 

 

It's a 25kW DC charger. Capacity of AC charger doesn't matter.

 

Charge curves for leaf's below. Note this is for leaf's with good health batteries. Note that with poor health batteries, internal resistance goes up, and charging speed at higher states of charge goes down a lot. Hard to track, but I am picking I get less than 25kW out of a 50kW DC charger when above 50% state of charge. Cranks when I am near zero though.

 

Actually 25kWh chargers are a quite a good fit for 24kWh leaf, and cars like the outlander PHEV, which don't come close to fully utilizing a 50kW fast charger for much of the cycle.

 

 

 

 

https://insideevs.com/photo/3996652/lets-look-at-fast-charging-curves-for-popular-electric-cars/

 

 

 

Any leaf with below about 40% state of charge should be quite fine to suck up 7kWh in 15 - 20mins.

 

 


SaltyNZ
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  #2915858 19-May-2022 08:36
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Scott3:

 

All their Aussie charger installs seem to be single bay, and their Albany Miter 10 render is as well, so no opportunity to reserve bay's here.

 

 

 

 

The Mitre10 in the render looks like the Albany one, which already has 2 Tesla 11kW 3-phase AC chargers. In theory I think these are supposed to be Tesla-only but I have seen one other EV apparently successfully charging from one so I guess they unlocked them. The important point is, they don't have way to reserve a bay, no.

 

Having said that I've never seen the carpark so full someone was parked there without charging but that won't necessarily be true for all locations.





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MikeAqua
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  #2915863 19-May-2022 08:49
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How much of a difference do people think this will make?

 

Mercedes-Benz And Sila Announce Breakthrough In Silicon Anode Chemistry (msn.com)

 

I'm always sceptical of announcements about batteries (they are little like announcements about announcements).  But it's Mercedes and there is date for availability in production vehicles.

 

 





Mike




SaltyNZ
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  #2915876 19-May-2022 09:18
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MikeAqua:

 

How much of a difference do people think this will make?

 

Mercedes-Benz And Sila Announce Breakthrough In Silicon Anode Chemistry (msn.com)

 

I'm always sceptical of announcements about batteries (they are little like announcements about announcements).  But it's Mercedes and there is date for availability in production vehicles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds potentially realer than some announcements, but with two caveats: the date is "mid decade" which could mean anywhere up to about 2027, and also "optionally" which implies they're not going to be cheap. Still, if it does work then several years later (2030+) it will presumably roll out more widely. Getting away from graphite electrodes to something more conductive is the Holy Grail to boost battery capacity but IIRC the problem they had with silicon is that it expands when you charge the battery, so... not good.





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afe66
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  #2915916 19-May-2022 11:26
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everettpsycho:

 

We use an 8A and I think we need to upgrade to something else. I'm toying with asking a sparky to go a back to back EO in the garage and a 15A caravan socket outside so we can see about charging 2 cars overnight. Once you go to 30kw the 8A takes a bit too long to be able to charge in the cheap power window and any higher the problem will only be worse.

I'm only thinking 7kw to future proof, if I'm paying for the install one day we'll have a 50kw+ car and the slower chargers just won't cut it anymore. So having both means was could keep a leaf as a commuter car and have the bigger one be our primary vehicle. I have asked EVs enhanced if they plan to address this with the 16 blade as charging their long range pack when it comes available on a 3.3kw plug will take forever. They said you can bolt on a eu charger easily or brought up using your ev to power your home as that uses DC, doesn't really help though and I'd hope they might be able to source some transformers to include with their big battery swap out.

Public AC charging we use if it's there and we are running on the low side but realistically could live without most of the time. I think people forget you can start each day with the full range and you don't need to detour to petrol stations anymore so it's actually easier to run. Fast charging we have only used a handful of times, our local warehouse has a free one that we only use because it's free and nearby, and other than that we did a Christchurch to tekapo trip and used them on that.

 

 

 

 

When I put in our caravan plug on a dedicated line back to the main switch board, I got 32A compatible cable laid as it was only a couple of dollars per meter more according to the electrician and he said if I subsequently wanted 32A charging it would only take him 20 minutes to change either end of the line. Most of the work of the original install was drilling hole in the concrete wall and running a cable from under the house up into the attic along a disused chimney and into the main board.


afe66
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  #2915917 19-May-2022 11:33
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Scott3:

 

HarmLessSolutions:

 

So how welcome is your typical Jap import Leaf owner going to be when he turns up and hogs the Jolt charger for over 2 hours to get his free 7kWh with a charging rate limited to 3kW?

 

 

It's a 25kW DC charger. Capacity of AC charger doesn't matter.

 

Charge curves for leaf's below. Note this is for leaf's with good health batteries. Note that with poor health batteries, internal resistance goes up, and charging speed at higher states of charge goes down a lot. Hard to track, but I am picking I get less than 25kW out of a 50kW DC charger when above 50% state of charge. Cranks when I am near zero though.

 

Actually 25kWh chargers are a quite a good fit for 24kWh leaf, and cars like the outlander PHEV, which don't come close to fully utilizing a 50kW fast charger for much of the cycle.

 

 

 

 

https://insideevs.com/photo/3996652/lets-look-at-fast-charging-curves-for-popular-electric-cars/

 

 

 

Any leaf with below about 40% state of charge should be quite fine to suck up 7kWh in 15 - 20mins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My 2014 leaf cant really charge above 25kwh for very long so when I go for a "rapid charge" I use the 25kwh unit which is next to the 50 kwh unit and just accept another coffee while waiting nearby. (You can see the live actual charge rate when using chargenet units on their app)

 

 


HarmLessSolutions
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  #2915923 19-May-2022 11:47
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Scott3:

 

HarmLessSolutions:

 

So how welcome is your typical Jap import Leaf owner going to be when he turns up and hogs the Jolt charger for over 2 hours to get his free 7kWh with a charging rate limited to 3kW?

 

 

It's a 25kW DC charger. Capacity of AC charger doesn't matter.

 

Charge curves for leaf's below. Note this is for leaf's with good health batteries. Note that with poor health batteries, internal resistance goes up, and charging speed at higher states of charge goes down a lot. Hard to track, but I am picking I get less than 25kW out of a 50kW DC charger when above 50% state of charge. Cranks when I am near zero though.

 

Actually 25kWh chargers are a quite a good fit for 24kWh leaf, and cars like the outlander PHEV, which don't come close to fully utilizing a 50kW fast charger for much of the cycle.

 

 

 

 

https://insideevs.com/photo/3996652/lets-look-at-fast-charging-curves-for-popular-electric-cars/

 

 

 

Any leaf with below about 40% state of charge should be quite fine to suck up 7kWh in 15 - 20mins.

 

 

 

Our 24kWh Leaf has only been on a fast charger 3 times (in almost 8 years) so never realised that the DC offered a faster charge rate than our 7kW home AC unit gives. Now I now.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


everettpsycho
574 posts

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  #2916067 19-May-2022 20:33
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afe66:

I put in our caravan plug on a dedicated line back to the main switch board, I got 32A compatible cable laid as it was only a couple of dollars per meter more according to the electrician and he said if I subsequently wanted 32A charging it would only take him 20 minutes to change either end of the line. Most of the work of the original install was drilling hole in the concrete wall and running a cable from under the house up into the attic along a disused chimney and into the main board.



Thanks this is good to know, it makes sense to run the wire to be 32A capable of it's getting run. I just couldn't run an evse and a caravan plug off it for two vehicles if needed which will be likely at least once or twice a week.

I could have the evse installed next to or underneath the fuse board so almost no cabling would be needed and just run a caravan socket to the outside in the way you described. Only downside that causes is we have to step over the cable to the washing machine, which is a minor inconvenience really. There's options but the back to back seemed a good idea as the location is better. I think I just need to bite the bullet and actually get a sparky out to quote for the works and see what they say.

gzt

gzt
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  #2916181 19-May-2022 22:13
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That BYD posted earlier is really interesting actually. Take a closer look:

TradeMe: Looking for a value for money EV big on space and on range..look no furhter, the BYD E6 fully electric Station Wagon is here. GVI are proud to be BYD Authorised resellers and have a selection of Ex-Taxi Fleet E6 Wagons for sale now

Ignore the mileage, these units have been well maintained and reconditioned so look like they have travelled a fraction of the kms

Full parts and service support available through our specialist EV workshop. We have a huge parts stock including headlights, taillights, bodypanels, glass and brakes etc

Scott3
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  #2916182 19-May-2022 22:22
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everettpsycho:

Thanks this is good to know, it makes sense to run the wire to be 32A capable of it's getting run. I just couldn't run an evse and a caravan plug off it for two vehicles if needed which will be likely at least once or twice a week.

I could have the evse installed next to or underneath the fuse board so almost no cabling would be needed and just run a caravan socket to the outside in the way you described. Only downside that causes is we have to step over the cable to the washing machine, which is a minor inconvenience really. There's options but the back to back seemed a good idea as the location is better. I think I just need to bite the bullet and actually get a sparky out to quote for the works and see what they say.

 

 

 

If you have made the call to become a two EV household, and are going to get a sparky in etc, give some thought to doing a high end install.

 

i.e. 2 x EO Mini's ($990) + EO Load management unit and load clamp ($300) + sparky costs like wire, breakers, install etc.

 

Means that you can draw 32A from either unit, all without the worry of blowing the pole fuse, as the unit will slow the cars rate of charging as the limit is approached (and speed it back up again when other loads are turned off).


gzt

gzt
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  #2916183 19-May-2022 22:27
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"Stationwagon" seems overenthusiastic for the rear space in BYD E6 2015 based on the few videos I watched.

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