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Rikkitic
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  #1862762 12-Sep-2017 12:37
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Interesting item in the Washington Post.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


tdgeek
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  #1862764 12-Sep-2017 12:51
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Rikkitic:

 

Interesting item in the Washington Post.

 

 

 

 

Naughty but nice, or is it the other way round? 

 

So, they sold a car for less than what it costs, given that the battery is the same as the higher priced car. They can unlock it. Makes sense if the lower priced battery was no cheaper, but I doubt thats the case

 

Have to have a think about this :-)  I could buy a 3 bedroom house as the 5 bedroom was too expensive, but I get a 5 bedroom house with two bedrooms locked?


 
 
 
 


Rikkitic
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  #1862773 12-Sep-2017 13:00
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You could also use the Sky argument. Their costs are the same whether someone subscribes to Soho or not. But they still charge extra for it.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


tdgeek
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  #1862811 12-Sep-2017 13:39
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Rikkitic:

 

You could also use the Sky argument. Their costs are the same whether someone subscribes to Soho or not. But they still charge extra for it.

 

 

 

 

Soho has newer content which costs. I have Sky but no Soho, I dont pay for it.

 

But with Tesla, they are selling two identical cars. Is the lower KW one taking a loss or low profit, or is that one priced at the 75KW cost plus margin, and the 75KW is priced more?

 

Its like 2 8kg washing machines. We know they are identical but one only allows the water to go to the 5kg washing level. Costs the same to make.


MarkH67
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  #1862847 12-Sep-2017 14:22
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A worthwhile announcement made by VW: http://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/volkswagen-to-make-electric-hybrid-versions-of-everything-by-2025/?ref=driven_fbpage

 

I like the mention of eventual solid state batteries, I look forward to that technology becoming a reality.


ech3lon
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  #1862969 12-Sep-2017 17:33
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tdgeek:

 

Naughty but nice, or is it the other way round? 

 

 

I think this is not news to Tesla customer and EV enthusiast.

 

ICE car makers to a lesser extent has been doing this with the ECU since the inception.


tdgeek
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  #1863012 12-Sep-2017 19:31
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ech3lon:

 

tdgeek:

 

Naughty but nice, or is it the other way round? 

 

 

I think this is not news to Tesla customer and EV enthusiast.

 

ICE car makers to a lesser extent has been doing this with the ECU since the inception.

 

 

How so?

 

ECU replaces distributor etc. Tesla is selling a 40KW I assume) car with a 75KW battery, so both cars are the same, and cost the same to manufacture, but one is more pricey than the other. Uf EV batteries were not expensive, say $10k for 40KW and 12k for 75KW it does make more sense, almost. But thats not the case


 
 
 
 


Linuxluver

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  #1863047 12-Sep-2017 21:04
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tdgeek:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Interesting item in the Washington Post.

 

 

 

 

Naughty but nice, or is it the other way round? 

 

So, they sold a car for less than what it costs, given that the battery is the same as the higher priced car. They can unlock it. Makes sense if the lower priced battery was no cheaper, but I doubt thats the case

 

Have to have a think about this :-)  I could buy a 3 bedroom house as the 5 bedroom was too expensive, but I get a 5 bedroom house with two bedrooms locked?

 



This sort of thing has been the norm in IT for almost 50 years. You'd buy a mainframe from IBM and pay for the power and I/O you needed......and if you needed more processor or I/O channels.....you'd pay some more money and they would turn them on for you. They were already in the box.

A bit like economy vs Premium Economy vs Business Class.

Same plane...you just unlock the features you need by paying more money. :-)

(EDIT: Fixing typos. I'm a typo-magnet.)





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


Aredwood
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  #1863063 12-Sep-2017 21:34
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tdgeek:

 

ech3lon:

 

 

 

I think this is not news to Tesla customer and EV enthusiast.

 

ICE car makers to a lesser extent has been doing this with the ECU since the inception.

 

 

How so?

 

ECU replaces distributor etc. Tesla is selling a 40KW I assume) car with a 75KW battery, so both cars are the same, and cost the same to manufacture, but one is more pricey than the other. Uf EV batteries were not expensive, say $10k for 40KW and 12k for 75KW it does make more sense, almost. But thats not the case

 

 

Some car manufacturers sell cars with different engine power output levels. Where the only difference is the firmware that is loaded to the ECU.

 

My 2002 Merc Vito diesel is like that. It was available with 3 different power output levels, 80HP, 100HP, and 120HP. And the only difference is the ECU firmware, But the ECU can control how much boost the turbo outputs. So an ECU swap or reflash gets you more power.

 

The only justification from the manufacturers point of view I can think of: Is that the more powerful versions might have a higher number of failures under warranty. So a higher selling price is needed to allow for that. Presumably the same would apply to battery loss of life in the Tesla example.






Linuxluver

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  #1863073 12-Sep-2017 21:47
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Voltra give us a peek into the future of utes. 

They are targeting the mining industry with their "Votra eCruiser".

It's a Toyota Land Cruiser conversion. You can't use a diesel vehicle down a mining tunnel......and electric vehicles are ideal. I spoke to them at EV World and they see this as a stepping stone to a broader range of offerings. But for now, some of the mines in Aussie have 400km of tunnels....and there is at least one mine in the Coromandel with 40km of tunnels. 





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


tdgeek
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  #1863133 13-Sep-2017 06:43
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Aredwood:

 

tdgeek:

 

ech3lon:

 

 

 

I think this is not news to Tesla customer and EV enthusiast.

 

ICE car makers to a lesser extent has been doing this with the ECU since the inception.

 

 

How so?

 

ECU replaces distributor etc. Tesla is selling a 40KW I assume) car with a 75KW battery, so both cars are the same, and cost the same to manufacture, but one is more pricey than the other. Uf EV batteries were not expensive, say $10k for 40KW and 12k for 75KW it does make more sense, almost. But thats not the case

 

 

Some car manufacturers sell cars with different engine power output levels. Where the only difference is the firmware that is loaded to the ECU.

 

My 2002 Merc Vito diesel is like that. It was available with 3 different power output levels, 80HP, 100HP, and 120HP. And the only difference is the ECU firmware, But the ECU can control how much boost the turbo outputs. So an ECU swap or reflash gets you more power.

 

The only justification from the manufacturers point of view I can think of: Is that the more powerful versions might have a higher number of failures under warranty. So a higher selling price is needed to allow for that. Presumably the same would apply to battery loss of life in the Tesla example.

 

 

Understood. Same for bikes actually, you can buy a 650cc locked to 33hp for learners. Costs a bomb to get that unlocked

 

The batteries though are hardware, and the extra 30 odd KW must have a high cost Plus you get them, dont pay for them but you have t lug them around, affecting range somewhat.


MikeAqua
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  #1863244 13-Sep-2017 09:09
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In amongst today's MBIE research funding announcements, Auckland Uni have some funding to develop technologies for pavements that inductively charge EVs. Below is the public summary.  It's a bit rah-rah-rah as it's from a funding proposal.  If the idea can be realised, it could be a game changer, especially if you can charge as you go.

 

http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/science-innovation/investment-funding/current-funding/2017-endeavour-round/successful-proposals/

 

"It is now agreed that the world must halve its emission of greenhouse gases by 2050. New Zealand's per capita emissions are about three times the world average. By reducing our reliance on burning fossil fuels, we can achieve the necessary cuts without impacting primary production. Making the switch to electric vehicles (EVs) is an essential part of meeting our international commitments - and it's government policy. But even though over 80% of our electricity is generated from renewable sources (hydroelectricity, geothermal, wind, and solar), there are still barriers to be overcome.

 

First of all, electric cars need to be recharged more frequently - their range is much less than for petrol vehicles. More public charging points are needed - but charging takes time. Also, grid operators worry about meeting peak demand when everyone arrives home and plugs their car in.

 

The solution to these problems is to develop technology that enables EVs to be charged as they are parked or moving along the road. It's a challenging goal, since it requires us to develop new charging pads that can survive being put into the roadway and
create new charging materials made of soft composites. We will need to modify the construction of the roadway itself so the charging system will perform well over years.

 

Our partners from the electricity and transportation industry, the Ministry of Transport, NZTA, and Auckland Transport are keen to help.

 

This proposal is timely. The wireless charging technology was developed by NZ researchers and has already proven itself. We now have an opportunity to export our novel roadway charging technology to the world.
Our dynamic charging roadways will enable a safer, cleaner world for everyone."

 

 





Mike


kingdragonfly
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  #1863256 13-Sep-2017 09:17
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Regarding the Voltra truck, you'd think they would remove the "decorative" air scoops on the bonnet.

tdgeek
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  #1863275 13-Sep-2017 09:24
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Great idea but what cost? Then they break and need fixing. Why not have charging points in shopping centres, workplace car parks, car parks,. supermarkets etc. Where most cars live in daytime. Have  peak power billing that encourages off peak


MikeAqua
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  #1863336 13-Sep-2017 10:22
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tdgeek:

 

Great idea but what cost? Then they break and need fixing. Why not have charging points in shopping centres, workplace car parks, car parks,. supermarkets etc. Where most cars live in daytime. Have  peak power billing that encourages off peak

 

 

Who knows.  It's early stage research. 

 

They will be aiming for proof of concept, with all those commercialisation issues to be addressed once the actual technology format is known. 

 

It's the mobile charging that I see as most appealing (also the most technically challenging). But if it's achievable, perhaps charging strips could be a means of monetising highways (with a margin going back into road maintenance).  Entire bus-lanes could become charging strips.  Inductive charging isn't that efficient, so probably we are talking range extension, rather than limitless range.

 

Stationary charging appeals as well - charge wherever you park, no cords.  Battery-buses on urban routes.  The services I use stop frequently for traffic and at bus stops.  Each time they stop they could get a little top up.  Battery-buses would be able to accommodate a large transfer footprint, increasing charge rates.

 

 





Mike


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