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Obraik
2007 posts

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  #2941407 13-Jul-2022 10:36
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johno1234
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  #2941502 13-Jul-2022 14:18
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alasta:

 

When the Kona electric launched about three years ago I was really hoping that it would be much cheaper by now. Pricing for the new generation Niro hasn't yet been announced, but it seems likely to be similar to the outgoing generation.

 

I think it's really disappointing that mainstream electric offerings like this haven't yet managed to get down to $60k with the government subsidy because at that point they would start to become financially viable for a lot of people. Higher interest rates are also not helping to make the financials stack up. 

 

 

Wow.  I'm in a high income earning decile and I could not even imagine spending $60k on a loss making liability such as a car.

 

 


wellygary
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  #2941505 13-Jul-2022 14:25
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alasta:

 

When the Kona electric launched about three years ago I was really hoping that it would be much cheaper by now. Pricing for the new generation Niro hasn't yet been announced, but it seems likely to be similar to the outgoing generation.

 

I think it's really disappointing that mainstream electric offerings like this haven't yet managed to get down to $60k with the government subsidy because at that point they would start to become financially viable for a lot of people. Higher interest rates are also not helping to make the financials stack up. 

 

 

I think like pretty much everything else in the world prices on EVs are going to be going UP rather than down for at least the next few years until supply catches up with demand, 

 

Also car companies haven't worked out how to make Evs for the Western world cheap yet...

 

Despite 10 years of battery prices declines and other advances, a Nissan leaf today is pretty much a similar in price to what it was 10 years ago....

 

 




alasta
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  #2941510 13-Jul-2022 14:44
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One of the big unknowns in regards to the financial viability of electric vehicles is the depreciation curve. If prices aren't dropping at the rate that some people have suggested, then they're not the depreciation disaster that they otherwise might have been. 

 

Electric vehicles from mainstream manufacturers like Hyundai will probably hold their value pretty well because conservative consumers won't want to take a punt on unfamiliar players like Tesla or the Chinese marques. 


HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

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  #2941518 13-Jul-2022 15:05
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wellygary:

 

I think like pretty much everything else in the world prices on EVs are going to be going UP rather than down for at least the next few years until supply catches up with demand, 

 

Also car companies haven't worked out how to make Evs for the Western world cheap yet...

 

Despite 10 years of battery prices declines and other advances, a Nissan leaf today is pretty much a similar in price to what it was 10 years ago....

 

Not really a fair comparison as a Nissan Leaf 10 years ago had a 24kWh battery whereas today's Leaf of similar price (~$70K before rebate) has a 60kWh battery. EVs with ranges as low as the Gen 1 Leaf are pretty much unsaleable today, as Mazda are finding out.

 

Prices may not be dropping as such but you're certainly getting a lot more for the same price.





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wellygary
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  #2941523 13-Jul-2022 15:10
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

Prices may not be dropping as such but you're certainly getting a lot more for the same price.

 

 

That's the whole point thou, they just up the specs....and make the battery bigger, which is great for those buying, but it doesn't significantly expand the market as the base cost remains the same...

 

Its like the number of Timtams in a pack going up 50% with the price staying the same,

 

But in reality many people would be happy with 25% more timtams at a 25% lower price... :)


HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

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  #2941529 13-Jul-2022 15:28
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Using that reasoning there would still be PCs available with 8Mb RAM. Tech manufacturers design spec's to meet market demand and the biggest barrier to EV entry for most customers is insufficient range so bigger batteries it has to be.





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jonathan18
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  #2941541 13-Jul-2022 15:49
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johno1234:Wow.  I'm in a high income earning decile and I could not even imagine spending $60k on a loss making liability such as a car.


 



But, for many, it’s not a decision made solely on financial terms. If that was the case I can’t see how any newly developed product such as EVs (or even the first ICE cars, in ye olde days) would ever get to the point of critical mass so as to be able to be ‘affordable’ to a wide pool of a population.

I know my decision to buy a MY doesn’t stack up financially, but I’m ok with that; I’m doing it for many other reasons. I’m also sure most with disposable (or not so disposable) income find something else to spend it on that is equally ‘frivolous’!

SaltyNZ
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  #2941545 13-Jul-2022 15:55
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

pretty much unsaleable today, as Mazda are finding out.

 

 

 

 

I ... I saw one yesterday. I did a double take to make sure it really was a Mazda.





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johno1234
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  #2941546 13-Jul-2022 16:00
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jonathan18:
johno1234:Wow.  I'm in a high income earning decile and I could not even imagine spending $60k on a loss making liability such as a car.

 

 

 



But, for many, it’s not a decision made solely on financial terms. If that was the case I can’t see how any newly developed product such as EVs (or even the first ICE cars, in ye olde days) would ever get to the point of critical mass so as to be able to be ‘affordable’ to a wide pool of a population.

I know my decision to buy a MY doesn’t stack up financially, but I’m ok with that; I’m doing it for many other reasons. I’m also sure most with disposable (or not so disposable) income find something else to spend it on that is equally ‘frivolous’!

 

I think it's wonderful if people chose to buy BEV cars simply because they like them.

 

There is a problem if people find themselves forced toward BEVs by penal taxes or bans on ICE cars and fuel, which is where we are heading. At the moment, BEVs are simply unaffordable for most families, who are finding the cost of food and accommodation already too high.

 

 


alasta
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  #2941548 13-Jul-2022 16:04
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jonathan18:
johno1234:Wow.  I'm in a high income earning decile and I could not even imagine spending $60k on a loss making liability such as a car.

 



I know my decision to buy a MY doesn’t stack up financially, but I’m ok with that; I’m doing it for many other reasons.

 

If I did a bit more mileage and if I could charge at home, or if public chargers were cheaper, then it wouldn't be too far away from breaking even for me.

 

I'm making the decision purely on economic terms, and at this stage I'm expecting to buy another petrol car to get me through another five years but then it'll probably be the right time to go electric. 


mattwnz
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  #2941560 13-Jul-2022 16:43
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alasta:

 

jonathan18:

I know my decision to buy a MY doesn’t stack up financially, but I’m ok with that; I’m doing it for many other reasons.

 

If I did a bit more mileage and if I could charge at home, or if public chargers were cheaper, then it wouldn't be too far away from breaking even for me.

 

I'm making the decision purely on economic terms, and at this stage I'm expecting to buy another petrol car to get me through another five years but then it'll probably be the right time to go electric. 

 

 

 

 

It appears a lot of  new cars are moving to at least be hybrid. I think most new Toyotas will soon be hybrids. If more hybrids allowed pure EV for short distances, eg 80km, like the Toyota Rav 4 Prime, and were plugin too, it could be a good stopgap. The problem IMO is battery costs at the moment, so hybrids is a cheap stopgap. It sort of reminds me of TVs that used to have both digital and analogue receivers in them when freeview was first introduced, to manage the transition between technologies.   


alasta
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  #2941561 13-Jul-2022 16:48
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I'm not sure that I would gain much from a hybrid because the vast majority of my driving is on highways where convention powertrains tend to be pretty efficient. If the premium for a hybrid were less than $5k then it might be worth considering. 


Tinkerisk
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  #2941566 13-Jul-2022 17:12
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I am glad to have discovered today that I can expect a towing capacity of 1.6t from the smart #1. I wouldn't have thought that for a small electric car. Of course, it will then no longer have it’s range of 400-420 km.





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Dingbatt
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  #2941574 13-Jul-2022 17:39
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alasta:If the premium for a hybrid were less than $5k then it might be worth considering. 

 



 

The premium for Toyota hybrids over the same ‘ice only’ model used to be $3-4000, so the payback in fuel savings was about 3-4 years. I had a quick look at the Toyota NZ website and the premium (on the models that have non-hybrids) is $8-9000.
I’m sure TNZ won’t have jacked up the price so they get the $3000 CC rebate rather than the customer….😕





“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


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