EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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2112 posts

Uber Geek

#2942141 15-Jul-2022 12:00

GV27:

But functionally it is still the same car it was in ~~2017~~2011.

~~Five~~ 11 years is a long time.

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GV27

5859 posts

Uber Geek

#2942204 15-Jul-2022 13:07

I mean I'll still buy one. Just seems like a missed opportunity, but that's the story of Nissan all over.

Obraik

2112 posts

Uber Geek

#2942207 15-Jul-2022 13:08

Really? You'd still buy a new Leaf?

Why?

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GV27

5859 posts

Uber Geek

#2942212 15-Jul-2022 13:42

Obraik:

Really? You'd still buy a new Leaf?

Why?

Not new, obvs. Imported 40kw will be fine for what I need it for (safe family runabout with low/no running costs).

Obraik

2112 posts

Uber Geek

#2942214 15-Jul-2022 13:50

Looking on TradeMe though, you can get a Hyundai Ioniq for around the same price as a 40kWh Leaf, which by specs is a better car.

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GV27

5859 posts

Uber Geek

#2942221 15-Jul-2022 14:11

Obraik:

Looking on TradeMe though, you can get a Hyundai Ioniq for around the same price as a 40kWh Leaf, which by specs is a better car.

I'm set up already to import so I'm going down that route.

E: The subsidy means I can go a bit newer than the equivalent Ioniq I'd be able to afford here, and the saving over what a local Leaf costs looks to be substantial. Plus the hatchback is a better fit than the sedan/liftback at this point.

Also conscious that the Leaf has a worldwide army of tinkerers and workshops looking to hack bits and pieces onto it and the Ioniq is probably as good as it will ever get.

Scott3

3898 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2942238 15-Jul-2022 15:04

Obraik:

Looking on TradeMe though, you can get a Hyundai Ioniq for around the same price as a 40kWh Leaf, which by specs is a better car.

Cheapest 40kWh (total) leaf: $32k, 2017 with 65,000km and 84.7% battery health. 243km EPA range (when new), 110kW motor, 435L boot, ProPilot, 360deg camera, LED headlights, 17" wheels.

Cheapest 28kWh (usable) Ioniq electric: $36k 2017 with 25,000km. Unknown battery health: normally pritty good, 200km EPA rated range (when new), 88kW motor, 350L boot, 16" wheels etc.

The ioniq wins hands down on efficiency, fast charging & battery lifespan, but the leaf wins on specs in pritty much every other area. Range is similar (de-rateding the leaf to 84.7% of new), leaf has more power, more boot space, more tech etc.

I really like the Ioniq, but prices spiked after the Ukraine "Special military operation". A few 28kWh Ionic's went through trademe for around $26k before this. Amazing buying then. But similar car's are now selling for $35k - $42K. I don't really see value at that price point.

The cheapest Post refresh (100kW motor, 38.3kWh usable battery 311 WLTP range) Ioniqs are what look to be 2020 / 2021 ex demo's (under 10,000km) for $53k+. Great car, but only $4000 under new (Ioniq electric entry) pricing after rebate, so If delivery times worked, I think the new car would be the better buy.

Once you get above $35k, many other cars become viable with a budget stretch:

- 64kWh (useable) kona (2018), for $53k. 150kW motor & 450km range.

- Nissan leaf E+ $45,450 after rebate for a 2019. (62kWh total). 160kW motor. 364km epa range.

- Brand new MG ZS EV (cira $42k). 50kWh, 130kW etc.

- Brand new Pug e-208 ($55,365 +ORC after rebate). 382km WLTP range, 100kW fast charging.

Scott3

3898 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2942243 15-Jul-2022 15:22

I understand that it was Nissan's plan from a while back to discontinue the leaf when the Ariya went into production. Article from october 2021

www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/61821/nissan-leaf-to-be-replaced-by-small-electric-crossover/

I understand the Ariya price in japan was to be about 50% higher than the leaf, so obviously quite a different market segment. Likely will make it to pricey for many markets, where it will be going head to head with the Tesla model Y, Ioniq 5 etc.

In Jan this year, there were reports that they were going to co-exist in the USA.

https://insideevs.com/news/560739/nissan-leaf-coexist-with-ariya/

Seems that has been flipped back, in favor of it being replaced in the USA

I imagine that nissan is keep to drop the leaf badge, and the baggage it carries from batteries issue in the early units, but this more does seem odd at a time that there seems to be a shortage of EV's.

With the Ariya taking over as the nissan flagship EV, it seems like the leaf could do a bit of a pivot to be a cheap offering.

Put in a 36 - 45kWh LFP battery, into the existing platform, and set it up to be cheaper to produce (decrease motor power from 160kW in the e-plus to say the 110kW of the 40kW), more basic trim packages etc. and pitch it as a commuter car / fleet car etc.

Current shape hasn't had a mid cycle refresh yet. I would expect Nissan to be keen to get some more production out of their R+D spend.

wellygary

8171 posts

Uber Geek

#2942256 15-Jul-2022 15:38

Scott3:

Seems that has been flipped back, in favor of it being replaced in the USA

If you are in the middle of a parts crunch (Chips etc) it makes sense to cull low selling models and dump the scarce resources into models with a higher profitability ( even if you still overall sell fewer cars)

Also the Leaf has little attraction against newer models in a shortage when the dealer says "of course you will have to wait 6 months for delivery"

jarledb

Webhead
3243 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator

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Lifetime subscriber

#2942281 15-Jul-2022 16:11

Scott3:

Once you get above $35k, many other cars become viable with a budget stretch:

- 64kWh (useable) kona (2018), for $53k. 150kW motor & 450km range.

- Nissan leaf E+ $45,450 after rebate for a 2019. (62kWh total). 160kW motor. 364km epa range.

- Brand new MG ZS EV (cira $42k). 50kWh, 130kW etc.

- Brand new Pug e-208 ($55,365 +ORC after rebate). 382km WLTP range, 100kW fast charging.

I would add BYD Atto 3 to that list. $52,990 + ORC. for 50 kWh battery with 320km WLTP range, and $57,990 + ORC for 60 kWh battery and 420 km WLTP range. Both have LFP batteries, so should be able to be charged to 100% day by day.

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MarkH67

516 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2942363 15-Jul-2022 18:25

jonathan18:

But our Leaf has been one of those subject to a significant reduction in range in the 4.5 years we've owned it: no doubt the nearly exclusive fast charging it was subject to in Japan played a big role in this. And it's only done something like 70k.

My 2015 Leaf has been great, saved me a whole bunch of money on commuting and the battery is still pretty good. It is still showing 10/12 bars and getting a reasonable range (for a 24kWh battery). It had only 7,500km on the clock when I bought it as a 2 year old Japanese import, now has ~92,000km on the clock. I've never had it serviced and only spend money on wipers & tyres. I just bought 4 new tyres for it on Wednesday and I'll be selling it in a few weeks due to a change in location and not needing a car anymore. I'm in the process of buying a vehicle with a Cummins 5.9 Litre turbo diesel, but I'm planning on buying an e-bike to commute on - so I'll be kinda half green.

Tinkerisk

4095 posts

Uber Geek

#2942366 15-Jul-2022 19:01

Boring model/operating cost battle - no news. If you need an inexpensive family car, buy it and if you want a racy cough drop, buy it too! ;-)

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gzt

16821 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2942367 15-Jul-2022 19:04

Nissan is talking about a mid-decade end. At the same time acknowledging Leaf is seeing an uptick with high petrol prices.

Tinkerisk

4095 posts

Uber Geek

#2942368 15-Jul-2022 19:05

MarkH67:

… buying a vehicle with a Cummins 5.9 Litre turbo diesel, but I'm planning on buying an e-bike to commute on - so I'll be kinda half green.

Wonderful, that was the best way to lie to yourself so far. You couldn't pedal that half much in a lifetime. ;-)

MarkH67

516 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2942371 15-Jul-2022 19:11

Tinkerisk:

MarkH67:

… buying a vehicle with a Cummins 5.9 Litre turbo diesel, but I'm planning on buying an e-bike to commute on - so I'll be kinda half green.

Wonderful, that was the best way to lie to yourself so far. You couldn't pedal that half much in a lifetime. ;-)

It will also get solar panels on the roof - that's a little green too . . .

But yeah, due to the size & weight it will use some diesel when driven - 11M motorhome.

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