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Obraik
2006 posts

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  #2942141 15-Jul-2022 12:00
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GV27:

 

But functionally it is still the same car it was in 20172011

 

Five 11 years is a long time. 

 

 

I've fixed the above for you 😉





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GV27
5550 posts

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  #2942204 15-Jul-2022 13:07
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I mean I'll still buy one. Just seems like a missed opportunity, but that's the story of Nissan all over. 


Obraik
2006 posts

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  #2942207 15-Jul-2022 13:08
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Really? You'd still buy a new Leaf?

 

Why?





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GV27
5550 posts

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  #2942212 15-Jul-2022 13:42
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Obraik:

 

Really? You'd still buy a new Leaf?

 

Why?

 

 

Not new, obvs. Imported 40kw will be fine for what I need it for (safe family runabout with low/no running costs). 


Obraik
2006 posts

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  #2942214 15-Jul-2022 13:50
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Looking on TradeMe though, you can get a Hyundai Ioniq for around the same price as a 40kWh Leaf, which by specs is a better car.





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GV27
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  #2942221 15-Jul-2022 14:11
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Obraik:

 

Looking on TradeMe though, you can get a Hyundai Ioniq for around the same price as a 40kWh Leaf, which by specs is a better car.

 

 

I'm set up already to import so I'm going down that route.

 

E: The subsidy means I can go a bit newer than the equivalent Ioniq I'd be able to afford here, and the saving over what a local Leaf costs looks to be substantial. Plus the hatchback is a better fit than the sedan/liftback at this point.

 

Also conscious that the Leaf has a worldwide army of tinkerers and workshops looking to hack bits and pieces onto it and the Ioniq is probably as good as it will ever get. 


Scott3
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  #2942238 15-Jul-2022 15:04
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Obraik:

 

Looking on TradeMe though, you can get a Hyundai Ioniq for around the same price as a 40kWh Leaf, which by specs is a better car.

 

 

Cheapest 40kWh (total) leaf: $32k, 2017 with 65,000km and 84.7% battery health. 243km EPA range (when new), 110kW motor, 435L boot, ProPilot, 360deg camera, LED headlights, 17" wheels.

Cheapest 28kWh (usable) Ioniq electric: $36k 2017 with 25,000km. Unknown battery health: normally pritty good, 200km EPA rated range (when new), 88kW motor, 350L boot, 16" wheels etc.

 

 

 

The ioniq wins hands down on efficiency, fast charging & battery lifespan, but the leaf wins on specs in pritty much every other area. Range is similar (de-rateding the leaf to 84.7% of new), leaf has more power, more boot space, more tech etc.

 

 

 

I really like the Ioniq, but prices spiked after the Ukraine "Special military operation". A few 28kWh Ionic's went through trademe for around $26k before this. Amazing buying then. But similar car's are now selling for $35k - $42K. I don't really see value at that price point.

The cheapest Post refresh (100kW motor, 38.3kWh usable battery  311 WLTP range) Ioniqs are what look to be 2020 / 2021 ex demo's (under 10,000km) for $53k+. Great car, but only $4000 under new (Ioniq electric entry) pricing after rebate, so If delivery times worked, I think the new car would be the better buy.

 

 

 

Once you get above $35k, many other cars become viable with a budget stretch:

 

- 64kWh (useable) kona (2018), for $53k. 150kW motor & 450km range.

 

- Nissan leaf E+ $45,450 after rebate for a 2019. (62kWh total). 160kW motor. 364km epa range.

 

- Brand new MG ZS EV (cira $42k). 50kWh, 130kW etc.

 

- Brand new Pug e-208 ($55,365 +ORC after rebate). 382km WLTP range, 100kW fast charging.




Scott3
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  #2942243 15-Jul-2022 15:22
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I understand that it was Nissan's plan from a while back to discontinue the leaf when the Ariya went into production. Article from october 2021

 

www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/61821/nissan-leaf-to-be-replaced-by-small-electric-crossover/

 

 

 

I understand the Ariya price in japan was to be about 50% higher than the leaf, so obviously quite a different market segment. Likely will make it to pricey for many markets, where it will be going head to head with the Tesla model Y, Ioniq 5 etc.

 

 

 

In Jan this year, there were reports that they were going to co-exist in the USA.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/560739/nissan-leaf-coexist-with-ariya/

 

 

 

Seems that has been flipped back, in favor of it being replaced in the USA

 

 

 

I imagine that nissan is keep to drop the leaf badge, and the baggage it carries from batteries issue in the early units, but this more does seem odd at a time that there seems to be a shortage of EV's.

With the Ariya taking over as the nissan flagship EV, it seems like the leaf could do a bit of a pivot to be a cheap offering.

 

Put in a 36 - 45kWh LFP battery, into the existing platform, and set it up to be cheaper to produce (decrease motor power from 160kW in the e-plus to say the 110kW of the 40kW), more basic trim packages etc. and pitch it as a commuter car / fleet car etc.

 

Current shape hasn't had a mid cycle refresh yet. I would expect Nissan to be keen to get some more production out of their R+D spend.


wellygary
7501 posts

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  #2942256 15-Jul-2022 15:38
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Scott3:

 

Seems that has been flipped back, in favor of it being replaced in the USA

 

 

If you are in the middle of a parts crunch (Chips etc) it makes sense to cull low selling models and dump the scarce resources into models with a higher profitability ( even if you still overall sell fewer cars) 

 

Also the Leaf has little attraction against newer models in a shortage when the dealer says "of course you will have to wait 6 months for delivery"


jarledb
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  #2942281 15-Jul-2022 16:11
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Scott3:

 

Once you get above $35k, many other cars become viable with a budget stretch:

 

- 64kWh (useable) kona (2018), for $53k. 150kW motor & 450km range.

 

- Nissan leaf E+ $45,450 after rebate for a 2019. (62kWh total). 160kW motor. 364km epa range.

 

- Brand new MG ZS EV (cira $42k). 50kWh, 130kW etc.

 

- Brand new Pug e-208 ($55,365 +ORC after rebate). 382km WLTP range, 100kW fast charging.

 

 

 

 

I would add BYD Atto 3 to that list. $52,990 + ORC. for 50 kWh battery with 320km WLTP range, and $57,990 + ORC for 60 kWh battery and 420 km WLTP range. Both have LFP batteries, so should be able to be charged to 100% day by day. 





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MarkH67
510 posts

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  #2942363 15-Jul-2022 18:25
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jonathan18:

 

But our Leaf has been one of those subject to a significant reduction in range in the 4.5 years we've owned it: no doubt the nearly exclusive fast charging it was subject to in Japan played a big role in this. And it's only done something like 70k.

 

 

My 2015 Leaf has been great, saved me a whole bunch of money on commuting and the battery is still pretty good.  It is still showing 10/12 bars and getting a reasonable range (for a 24kWh battery).  It had only 7,500km on the clock when I bought it as a 2 year old Japanese import, now has ~92,000km on the clock.  I've never had it serviced and only spend money on wipers & tyres.  I just bought 4 new tyres for it on Wednesday and I'll be selling it in a few weeks due to a change in location and not needing a car anymore.  I'm in the process of buying a vehicle with a Cummins 5.9 Litre turbo diesel, but I'm planning on buying an e-bike to commute on - so I'll be kinda half green.


Tinkerisk
3222 posts

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  #2942366 15-Jul-2022 19:01
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Boring model/operating cost battle - no news. If you need an inexpensive family car, buy it and if you want a racy cough drop, buy it too! ;-)





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gzt

gzt
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  #2942367 15-Jul-2022 19:04
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Nissan is talking about a mid-decade end. At the same time acknowledging Leaf is seeing an uptick with high petrol prices.

Tinkerisk
3222 posts

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  #2942368 15-Jul-2022 19:05
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MarkH67:

 

… buying a vehicle with a Cummins 5.9 Litre turbo diesel, but I'm planning on buying an e-bike to commute on - so I'll be kinda half green.

 

 

Wonderful, that was the best way to lie to yourself so far. You couldn't pedal that half much in a lifetime. ;-)

 

 





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- SRV: HA server cluster, 0.1PB storage capacity on premise
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MarkH67
510 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2942371 15-Jul-2022 19:11
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Tinkerisk:

 

MarkH67:

 

… buying a vehicle with a Cummins 5.9 Litre turbo diesel, but I'm planning on buying an e-bike to commute on - so I'll be kinda half green.

 

 

Wonderful, that was the best way to lie to yourself so far. You couldn't pedal that half much in a lifetime. ;-)

 

 

It will also get solar panels on the roof - that's a little green too . . . 

 

But yeah, due to the size & weight it will use some diesel when driven - 11M motorhome.


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