EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2949745 2-Aug-2022 14:50

HarmLessSolutions: But how would a differential for GLW be implemented?

Obviously good question. Thanks Do it the same as now - yes, no longer a flat price for every vehicle. Ok by me.

But tax the fossil fuels separately to RUC. That's the main point.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2949756 2-Aug-2022 15:46

SaltyNZ:

HarmLessSolutions:

Gross Laden Weight = Heavy Vehicles

Oh, right. Well, RUCs would be charged on weight class. Heavy vehicles pay more. Carbon & other pollution taxes are charged by the litre. The less fuel you use the less you pollute, so the less pollution tax you pay.

Doesn't matter what the vehicle is. Doesn't even matter if it is actually a vehicle - combustion engined power tools pollute too.

You're talking about two separate taxes there though. RUCs and some form of ETS directed fuel tax.

We already have RUCs but they are charged by different methods for differently fuelled vehicles which has been identified as a broken system, particularly in how hybrids, non-road based use of petrol and the ability to fraud the system are addressed. RUCs are already charged differentially based on vehicle weights for non-petrol powered (primarily diesel) vehicles and their trailers in HV cases by way of distance travelled as monitored by the vehicle owner. A 'fuel' based RUC system for EVs is impossible as avoidance is as easy as home charging which increasingly can be PV powered.

A pollution tax is a completely separate issue and one that is currently being addressed by way of the Clean Car Rebate system.

At some point the the CCR and current RUC exemption for EVs will cease and at that time I'm suggesting that a totally rehashed RUC system will be introduced where the RUC component of petrol will be removed and a distance based system of RUC monitoring and payment will be brought in to replace what we have now. By charging RUCs to all vehicles based on distance the opportunity presents to incentivise/penalise variously 'fueled' vehicles as TPTB see fit to do.

A pollution tax on fossil fuels is another whole discussion as it will meet resistance but does capture taxation from non-road fuel use (e.g. power tools, boats, off-road vehicles) as you suggest.

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2949855 2-Aug-2022 19:58

I think a mindset change is required with EV's.

What I mean with this is move away from speed & acceleration or an EV, we all know that with the instant torque of a EV motor, it's going to slay an ICE vehicle.

These are 2 videos of YouTuber's driving and talking about the Mercedes EQXX concept which managed 1200 km's on a single charge.

Shmee150 Video

Carfection Video

This sort of Tech needs to be the focus. Yes, there will always be the performance variants, but the tech demo'd in this concept needs\should be adopted immediately.

Scott3

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#2949968 2-Aug-2022 22:47

SaltyNZ:

Oh, right. Well, RUCs would be charged on weight class. Heavy vehicles pay more. Carbon & other pollution taxes are charged by the litre. The less fuel you use the less you pollute, so the less pollution tax you pay.

Doesn't matter what the vehicle is. Doesn't even matter if it is actually a vehicle - combustion engined power tools pollute too.

What you suggest is objectively the fairest outcome (stopping short of integrating real time congestion charging with the RUC that is.)

But it doesn't make it politically palatable. Key issue is the change from the status quo. Currently petrol attracts a carbon charge (@$70/tonne, it works out to be about 17c/L). This is dwarfed by the to 52c (ignoring the current 25c/L tax discount & before GST) of national fuel taxes & 10c/L of regional fuel tax in Auckland is added. Moving the latter to RUC's is going to be a boon for those with gas guzzling petrol cars, and upset those with economical petrol hybrids. Both environmentalist's and the taxi industry will be crying foul

Really hard to unwind the current situation where the likes of yaris hybrids are so efficient, they get an unworkable good deal on road taxes.

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#2949998 3-Aug-2022 08:58

Scott3:

Currently petrol attracts a carbon charge (@$70/tonne, it works out to be about 17c/L). This is dwarfed by the to 52c (ignoring the current 25c/L tax discount & before GST) of national fuel taxes & 10c/L of regional fuel tax in Auckland is added.

Well, yeah, that pollution charge needs to be a lot higher too, but then you are possibly starting to stray a bridge too far from RUC regulations updates. There's no perfect solution.

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Scott3

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#2950024 3-Aug-2022 09:53

SaltyNZ:

Well, yeah, that pollution charge needs to be a lot higher too, but then you are possibly starting to stray a bridge too far from RUC regulations updates. There's no perfect solution.

We do expect the price of carbon to jump over time.

To get emissions charges to replace the fuel tax (i.e. same as current behavioral incentive for somebody not paying RUC, i.e. a recreational boatie), the carbon price would need to be around $280/tonne.

Such a carbon charge (in the near term) would be pretty crippling for our industries like animal agriculture, fertilizer, steal-making etc.

One of the reasons I support EV's is because I see them as one of the lowest hanging fruit to reduce NZ's emissions. But I don't really want to see NZ much poorer from say shutting down our dairy industry, but nor do I think it is fair that private motorists get charged more for their emissions than major industries (as is the case now with farming for example). Don't really know the answer to this.

Obraik

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#2950619 4-Aug-2022 11:01

It seems Toyota is having some issues fixing the wheels on their first EV and are now offering to buy back the affected vehicles. A bit weird since it's not even the EV drivetrain that is the issue but a part of the car that Toyota has been making for decades. Especially amusing since people have been saying "Once Toyota starts making EVs everyone will be buying them for their expertise in making cars!"

Toyota's bZ4X recall isn't going great – company offers car buyback - Electrek

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Obraik

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#2951321 6-Aug-2022 14:56

Tesla today has announced a new Supercharger site for Kaikōura/Blenheim! No more dribble charging at 43kW on the trip north anymore 🙂

Tesla has said all new sites will be V3 sites, so this will likely be a set of 3 superchargers capable of 250kW. The current detail for it is a bit weird, showing on the map as Kaikōura but titled as Blenheim. Only good for Tesla's at the moment but in the near future all EVs should be able to charge on it as Tesla opens its network up.

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#2951330 6-Aug-2022 15:52

Out of charge: Rescued by the AA's mobile battery service!

Ecotricity NZ

In this nail-biting video, Gav flattened the battery on a Nissan Leaf to test out the Automobile Association's new battery charging service for electric vehicles. There was only one problem: it took forever to run the car out of charge!

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#2951351 6-Aug-2022 17:07

kingdragonfly: Out of charge: Rescued by the AA's mobile battery service!

Good to know that AA provides that service.

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Linuxluver

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#2951365 6-Aug-2022 18:01

kingdragonfly: Out of charge: Rescued by the AA's mobile battery service!

Ecotricity NZ

In this nail-biting video, Gav flattened the battery on a Nissan Leaf to test out the Automobile Association's new battery charging service for electric vehicles. There was only one problem: it took forever to run the car out of charge!

Yes! Having owned two LEAFs (and a Tesla and an MG ZS EV) I can support the idea that it does take some effort to run the car flat unless you're either unrealistic (newb error) or oblivious (just not thinking, really). :-)

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Dingbatt

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#2951701 7-Aug-2022 14:55

kingdragonfly: Out of charge: Rescued by the AA's mobile battery service!

Ecotricity NZ

In this nail-biting video, Gav flattened the battery on a Nissan Leaf to test out the Automobile Association's new battery charging service for electric vehicles. There was only one problem: it took forever to run the car out of charge!

I have only recently cottoned on the Gavin Shoebridge’s video reviews. Very entertaining and nice to get a Kiwi perspective on things EV.

The AA recharge van uses an inverter and as such is limited to 3.6kW (15A) I think. They are available to give you enough charge to get you to the nearest public charger. In Gavin’s case that was within a km of where his LEAF finally gave up the ghost. Can trickle charge its battery from the van’s alternator.
The van is also the mobile battery van as well, so if you are unlucky it will be rescuing a member whose 12v battery has died. Apart from the obvious, there possibly isn’t a huge benefit to lugging around the weight of a 4.3kWh battery and inverter when a liquid fuel powered generator would do the same job and doesn’t need to be fitted to the van.

Once there are more utility type EVs available with V2L (or V2V) they would be perfect for this service. Otherwise, if you run out of juice way out in the backblocks, as long as the breakdown services has the aforementioned generator, you shouldn’t need to be put on the back of a transporter.

The van is based in Auckland and I’m not sure what its boundary is, but as long as you have the Plugshare app, there really isn’t any excuse for running out of electrons within the city limits (as @Linuxluver pointed out).

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jarledb

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#2951703 7-Aug-2022 14:58

Dingbatt:

The van is based in Auckland and I’m not sure what its boundary is, but as long as you have the Plugshare app, there really isn’t any excuse for running out of electrons within the city limits (as @Linuxluver pointed out).

In the video they said that AA currently have vans in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. And from memory there will be more of them becoming available through the country.

But yeah, they should not normally be needed if you pay any attention at all to your range.

Dingbatt

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#2951706 7-Aug-2022 15:12

I also liked Gavin’s comment* that WLTP actually stands for;

Woefully Less Than Predicted

Don't know if that’s an old joke in EV circles, but I thought it was pretty good. His use of potatoes as a storage metric is inspired.

*In his review of the Mercedes EQC 400. The one in which the dealer opted to put it on a flatbed rather than let Gavin use the “Pump and Goo” repair kit provided, when it got a puncture out in the countryside.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

mattwnz

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#2951707 7-Aug-2022 15:15

Obraik:

It seems Toyota is having some issues fixing the wheels on their first EV and are now offering to buy back the affected vehicles. A bit weird since it's not even the EV drivetrain that is the issue but a part of the car that Toyota has been making for decades. Especially amusing since people have been saying "Once Toyota starts making EVs everyone will be buying them for their expertise in making cars!"

Toyota's bZ4X recall isn't going great – company offers car buyback - Electrek

It is a dual project with Subaru, so not a pure Toyota EV. Looks like it may only be the first batch though. Toyota do already make a Lexus EV.

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