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Dratsab
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  #2962542 3-Sep-2022 09:29
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SaltyNZ: Put down a deposit on the MG this afternoon. Red, Essence (higher spec) trim. Was told there it might even be here before the end of the year.

 

I'm toying with the idea of this. Essence in Sloane Silver. I have a test drive booked for later this month. Good thing is the WAF is very high.


 
 
 

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kingdragonfly
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  #2962543 3-Sep-2022 09:35
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California news: California asks residents not to charge electric vehicles, days after announcing gas car ban

With California’s power grid under strain due to extreme heat and high demand, the utility grid operator is asking residents to avoid charging their electric vehicles. This comes days after the state announced a plan to ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035.

The California Independent System Operator is asking residents for “voluntary energy conservation” over the Labor Day weekend.

According to the National Weather Service, the western United States is facing a “prolonged and record heat wave.”

“The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 25 C 78F degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights,” the American Public Power Association said, asking residents to limit energy usage during 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.

“Today, most people charge their electric cars when they come home in the evening — when electricity demand is typically at its peak,” according to Cornell University’s College of Engineering. “If left unmanaged, the power demanded from many electric vehicles charging simultaneously in the evening will amplify existing peak loads, potentially outstripping the grid’s current capacity to meet demand.”

Otago Daily Times: Power politics of aluminium smelting

October 2019 - The uncertain future of the Tiwai Peninsula aluminium smelter near Bluff is all about electricity.
More specifically, how much the smelter, the region's biggest employer, has to pay for the privilege of securing about 14% of New Zealand's generated electricity capacity - or about 776,000 households worth.

That's about the same electricity usage as a city the size of greater Auckland.
...

Obraik
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  #2962556 3-Sep-2022 11:39
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kingdragonfly: California news: California asks residents not to charge electric vehicles, days after announcing gas car ban

With California’s power grid under strain due to extreme heat and high demand, the utility grid operator is asking residents to avoid charging their electric vehicles. This comes days after the state announced a plan to ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035.

The California Independent System Operator is asking residents for “voluntary energy conservation” over the Labor Day weekend.

According to the National Weather Service, the western United States is facing a “prolonged and record heat wave.”

“The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 25 C 78F degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights,” the American Public Power Association said, asking residents to limit energy usage during 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.

Today, most people charge their electric cars when they come home in the evening — when electricity demand is typically at its peak,” according to Cornell University’s College of Engineering. “If left unmanaged, the power demanded from many electric vehicles charging simultaneously in the evening will amplify existing peak loads, potentially outstripping the grid’s current capacity to meet demand.”

 

While I'm dubious of this claim...if it is true then maybe the power companies over there should be doing what ours do and offer attractive offpeak rates so people want to charge at those times instead.





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HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

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  #2962561 3-Sep-2022 11:54
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Obraik:

 

kingdragonfly: California news: California asks residents not to charge electric vehicles, days after announcing gas car ban

With California’s power grid under strain due to extreme heat and high demand, the utility grid operator is asking residents to avoid charging their electric vehicles. This comes days after the state announced a plan to ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035.

The California Independent System Operator is asking residents for “voluntary energy conservation” over the Labor Day weekend.

According to the National Weather Service, the western United States is facing a “prolonged and record heat wave.”

“The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 25 C 78F degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights,” the American Public Power Association said, asking residents to limit energy usage during 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.

Today, most people charge their electric cars when they come home in the evening — when electricity demand is typically at its peak,” according to Cornell University’s College of Engineering. “If left unmanaged, the power demanded from many electric vehicles charging simultaneously in the evening will amplify existing peak loads, potentially outstripping the grid’s current capacity to meet demand.”

 

While I'm dubious of this claim...if it is true then maybe the power companies over there should be doing what ours do and offer attractive offpeak rates so people want to charge at those times instead.

 

From a post on the Polestar forum from a US owner:

 

"For me it makes no difference if I charge at peak or at night as I generate electricity using solar during the day and get credit for the amount of electricity I use (not based on cost- I have net metering) so if I use the credit at night it costs me the same as if I charged during the day."

 

While net-metering would be great in terms of ROI on PV (as it was in NZ back when Meridian offered 1:1 export tariffs) this is a disadvantage I hadn't considered.





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kingdragonfly
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  #2962592 3-Sep-2022 15:16
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In California, I get the impression solar red-tape ain't so easy.

True Sky Energy: Bill Maher’s Trouble with Solar

Technofreak
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  #2963186 4-Sep-2022 21:41
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A good explanation of why electric Utes won't be in widespread use in the near future in OZ. There are very strong parallels for New Zealand too.

 

https://youtu.be/qIlpHWo5uZo

 

 





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Scott3
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  #2963213 5-Sep-2022 00:41
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Obraik:

 

kingdragonfly:....
Today, most people charge their electric cars when they come home in the evening — when electricity demand is typically at its peak,” according to Cornell University’s College of Engineering. “If left unmanaged, the power demanded from many electric vehicles charging simultaneously in the evening will amplify existing peak loads, potentially outstripping the grid’s current capacity to meet demand.”

 

While I'm dubious of this claim...if it is true then maybe the power companies over there should be doing what ours do and offer attractive offpeak rates so people want to charge at those times instead.

 

 

We pretty much do with the leaf. We are not on time of use rates, and the range of the leaf is so low (cira 80km when we are charging in long life mode to 80% max), we subscribe to the allays be charging approach to maximize the odds the leaf has enough range for our next outing (reducing the odds we need to take the SUV).

And when we have family members visit, with their big battery EV, they need 16+ hours on a 10A plug to replace what they consumed in the intercity trip, so we start ASAP, charging through the evening peak, entire night, and morning peak.


As EV's start to make up a decent chunk of our vehicle fleet, I suspect non time of use plans will either be phased out, or become very expensive compared to time of use plans. Having customers that could easily set the timer on their EV's not bother because there is nothing in it for them, is going to be very expensive for power retailer's, giving time of use only retailers like octopus a competitive advantage in the marketplace.




HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

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  #2963236 5-Sep-2022 09:00
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Obraik:

 

kingdragonfly: California news: California asks residents not to charge electric vehicles, days after announcing gas car ban

With California’s power grid under strain due to extreme heat and high demand, the utility grid operator is asking residents to avoid charging their electric vehicles. This comes days after the state announced a plan to ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035.

The California Independent System Operator is asking residents for “voluntary energy conservation” over the Labor Day weekend.

According to the National Weather Service, the western United States is facing a “prolonged and record heat wave.”

“The top three conservation actions are to set thermostats to 25 C 78F degrees or higher, avoid using large appliances and charging electric vehicles, and turn off unnecessary lights,” the American Public Power Association said, asking residents to limit energy usage during 4 p.m. and 9 p.m.

Today, most people charge their electric cars when they come home in the evening — when electricity demand is typically at its peak,” according to Cornell University’s College of Engineering. “If left unmanaged, the power demanded from many electric vehicles charging simultaneously in the evening will amplify existing peak loads, potentially outstripping the grid’s current capacity to meet demand.”

 

While I'm dubious of this claim...if it is true then maybe the power companies over there should be doing what ours do and offer attractive offpeak rates so people want to charge at those times instead.

 

It appears the our government is considering introducing controls on supply to home EV chargers. A 'ripple control' type of system implemented via smart charging units. EECA have green paper discussion document open for submissions on what direction this goes:

 

https://www.eeca.govt.nz/about/news-and-corporate/news/eeca-launches-discussion-on-the-need-for-new-home-ev-charger-technology-to-support-growing-ev-uptake/





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frankv
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  #2963341 5-Sep-2022 09:36
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Technofreak:

 

A good explanation of why electric Utes won't be in widespread use in the near future in OZ. There are very strong parallels for New Zealand too.

 

https://youtu.be/qIlpHWo5uZo

 

 

Skip the first 8 minutes or so... it's just a bit of a rant. Likewise stop watching at 16 minutes or so. The rest is good.

 

His pricing is based on comparing moving an F150 Lightning from the USA to Australia, which would double the cost of it, and then comparing the much bigger and heavier F150 against the typical Aussie double-cab utes. There's no particular need to build EV utes the size of the F150, and no particular need to get them from the USA with the associated LHD/RHD conversion and one-off importation costs.

 

He also fallaciously says that a big EV will wear brake pads faster than a smaller ute, ignoring the fact that regen braking will reduce brake wear. But the rest is good.

 

 


Obraik
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  #2963361 5-Sep-2022 09:54
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Scott3:

 

We pretty much do with the leaf. We are not on time of use rates, and the range of the leaf is so low (cira 80km when we are charging in long life mode to 80% max), we subscribe to the allays be charging approach to maximize the odds the leaf has enough range for our next outing (reducing the odds we need to take the SUV).

And when we have family members visit, with their big battery EV, they need 16+ hours on a 10A plug to replace what they consumed in the intercity trip, so we start ASAP, charging through the evening peak, entire night, and morning peak.


As EV's start to make up a decent chunk of our vehicle fleet, I suspect non time of use plans will either be phased out, or become very expensive compared to time of use plans. Having customers that could easily set the timer on their EV's not bother because there is nothing in it for them, is going to be very expensive for power retailer's, giving time of use only retailers like octopus a competitive advantage in the marketplace.

 

 

I have an off peak plan with Meridian and I charge my Model 3 nightly during the off peak times. I get 9c/kWh off peak and 30c/kWh on peak so it's quite a bit cheaper to charge off peak. If I went with a flat rate plan, I believe the lowest I could get is around 24c/kWh.





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HarmLessSolutions
617 posts

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  #2963363 5-Sep-2022 09:59
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frankv:

 

Technofreak:

 

A good explanation of why electric Utes won't be in widespread use in the near future in OZ. There are very strong parallels for New Zealand too.

 

https://youtu.be/qIlpHWo5uZo

 

 

Skip the first 8 minutes or so... it's just a bit of a rant. Likewise stop watching at 16 minutes or so. The rest is good.

 

His pricing is based on comparing moving an F150 Lightning from the USA to Australia, which would double the cost of it, and then comparing the much bigger and heavier F150 against the typical Aussie double-cab utes. There's no particular need to build EV utes the size of the F150, and no particular need to get them from the USA with the associated LHD/RHD conversion and one-off importation costs.

 

He also fallaciously says that a big EV will wear brake pads faster than a smaller ute, ignoring the fact that regen braking will reduce brake wear. But the rest is good.

 

 

 

Typical of his presentations (which I rarely watch in their entirety) in that his technical knowledge is (currently) accurate but his theorising is trapped in the past, and is clouded by his Aussie bloke's lifestyle extrapolations. Australia has been very successful in rolling out domestic PV but their adoption of EVs is woefully slow because of attitudes such as Cadogan's. Transitioning from ICEs to EVs is more than just swapping like for like and a mindset shift is required in the way that we use personal transport and our reliance on it for recreational activities.

 

John jumps from Australia's successes in PV technology to criticisms of EV technology based on present battery tech and public charging infrastructure. As usual he's using worse case scenarios to accentuate the negative supported by whatever 'facts' he can scratch up to promote his opinions.

 

I have difficulty taking his use of slang nicknames seriously as well as his Aussie bloke vocabulary in general. Presentations such as his and that of the Electric Viking may appeal to those across the ditch but for many Kiwis they just come across as obtuse Aussie yobos.

 

 




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richms
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  #2963379 5-Sep-2022 10:32
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

I have difficulty taking his use of slang nicknames seriously as well as his Aussie bloke vocabulary in general. Presentations such as his and that of the Electric Viking may appeal to those across the ditch but for many Kiwis they just come across as obtuse Aussie yobos.

 

 

 

He is as cringe as most "comedy" that comes out of Australia. I dont see why people think that everyone needs to take their ute on a long trip to a far away hick town all the time. For all the tradies I know, they go from home, to site, to placemakers, to site, to placemakers, to site, to lunch, to site, to home every day of the week and an EV ute or hiace equivalent would be perfect. Sure, some may go to far off houses to do work sometimes but they can keep the ICE in the fleet for those trips.





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SaltyNZ
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  #2963381 5-Sep-2022 10:44
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frankv:

 

There's no particular need to build EV utes the size of the F150,

 

 

 

 

There's no particular need for utes to be the size of utes these days, either, for that matter...





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Scott3
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  #2963393 5-Sep-2022 10:57
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Obraik:

 

I have an off peak plan with Meridian and I charge my Model 3 nightly during the off peak times. I get 9c/kWh off peak and 30c/kWh on peak so it's quite a bit cheaper to charge off peak. If I went with a flat rate plan, I believe the lowest I could get is around 24c/kWh.

 

 

That's an impressive peak / off peak delta. In my area, the off peak price was roughly half peak price, you are less than 1/3rd.

I'm on 16.86c/kWh (incl GST, EA Levy, after prompt payment discounts etc) with Mercury.

 

I ran a model against various time of use plans, the most attractive was octopus, and would have resulted in about a $15 a month saving. I was keen for it, but my souse said it was not worth the effort to time shift our use (as I had projected in the model) for such a small saving, so we didn't go that route. The $200 signing bonus, and savings on not needing a hot water timer installed were also a factor significant factor, likely canceling out at least two years of savings, also my rates are fixed for two years which I saw as desirable given inflation running around 7%. I didn't expect a record wet winter when I signed.

 

Ultimately our lifestyle means we spend a lot of time at home, and consumer a decent chunk of our power on peak.

 

Our leaf makes up a fairly small proportion of our total consumption, and the battery is so small that it is pretty much essential to top off when I come home during the day. A modern big battery EV would change this, but currently our longer trips are done in our other car.


Scott3
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  #2963408 5-Sep-2022 11:38
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SaltyNZ:

 

There's no particular need for utes to be the size of utes these days, either, for that matter...

 

 

Have you spent much time in double cab utes?

 

The crux of the issue is that the manufactures are trying to combine a Passenger car, with a cargo vehicle, while using a space inefficient body on frame design, and maintaining a full bonnet design for styling and maintenance reasons . Net result is the whole lot gets compromised. Partially in passenger comfort (especially back seat), and cargo space.

 

Basically the only way to fix this, is by making the things bigger. While still compromised vs sedan, the cab's of modern Utes are much nicer places to be than the cab of the mid 90's navara I learnt to drive in. Largely thanks to them getting bigger. This combined with better noise and vibration control, and powerful turbo  engines are what have made utes popular today. (The Ute I learnt to drive in had suspension that was jarringly harsh when empty, and it's smoky non turbo engine made something like 63kW - made for some slow trips when towing something with a lot of weight and wind-age.

 

For the above reason's if F-150 sized diesel utes were available here at reasonable prices (and under our 3500kg light vehicle limit), they would sell like hot cakes (Despite them being too big for NZ carparks). People even pay  $108k - $160k for LHD converted Ram 1500's.

 

Little chance of utes getting smaller without a big shift in design approach. (move to unibody for greater spacial efficiency). An example could be ford Maverick. But even that is 5.072m long and 1.844m wide (so only 287mm shorter than a ranger wildtrack)

 

The Maverick small ute will come standard with a hybrid engine and some big headlights.

 

Frankly I think it is unlikely that ford will bring it here. The diesel utes out of Thailand are cheap to build, and it will be a hard sell to pitch similar or more expensive priced soft hybrid FWD, or petrol transverse engine AWD, with uni-body constriction, low payloads & tow ratings, to our market.


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