EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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955 posts

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#2964394 7-Sep-2022 18:47

lchiu7:

jarledb:

I would love that function if it was quick and safe, don't think any of the tested cars were quick enough to do the parking, especially the parallel parking.

I guess I am a bit influenced by the fact the Ford dealer could not even get it to work in the Ford Escape we tested. But when the feature working on the Mach-E it looked cool but a bit slow. I now find even just a reversing camera, my parking is so much better now.

While the physical rear vision in our Polestar is very limited I've been very impressed by the usefulness of the 360 degree camera display while parallel parking. Makes parking just like playing a computer game 😄

Also, while grabbing a few ergs from the 175kW charger at Ebbert Volkswagen in Hamilton early this afternoon there seemed to be a steady stream of BYDs going past from the nearby dealership. And our first experience using an Openloop charger required a call to their 0800 number to get things moving. Good customer service rep but the whole episode was a bit ropey compared to our previous ChargeNet uses.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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Obraik

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#2964418 7-Sep-2022 20:50

Scott3:

Just looked up the EV6 Air LR price in the UK. GBP 44,195 on the road. (In NZ the EV6 Air LR just squeaks in under the $80k rebate cap, after recent price drop). So basically no chance of any Mach-E trim being rebate eligible.

No rebate will make the RWD Mach-E pretty unattractive compared the longer range / larger battery EV6, and the more powerful Tesla model Y.

I would be very surprised if Ford don't price it under the rebate.

The same "no chance" theory was pretty common for the Model Y before Tesla launched it here and yet Tesla priced it just under the rebate and has kept it there despite price rises in almost every other country. I suspect Ford will do the same, just to compete against Tesla. Ford also needs to sell a lot of Mach-E's so they don't get large fees for all the Rangers they sell when the Clean Car programme starts affecting dealers next year.

Also keep in mind that in the US, the entry level Mach-E is priced US$2k lower than even the RWD Model 3.

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lchiu7

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#2964438 7-Sep-2022 22:00

HarmLessSolutions:

lchiu7:

I guess I am a bit influenced by the fact the Ford dealer could not even get it to work in the Ford Escape we tested. But when the feature working on the Mach-E it looked cool but a bit slow. I now find even just a reversing camera, my parking is so much better now.

While the physical rear vision in our Polestar is very limited I've been very impressed by the usefulness of the 360 degree camera display while parallel parking. Makes parking just like playing a computer game 😄

I actually did a few hours test drive of the Polestar and liked it. The rear vision is pretty limited and I didn't test out the 360 cameras which must help.

I like the car a lot especially the way it drove like a car and the driver controls were not like the Starship Enterprise. And really liked Android Automotive as the car platform. But decided against it since my wife did not like the restricted rear view and the low seating position.

The BYD which we did buy does not have these issues and also has the 360 camera. In fact it appears to have more than one POV for the overhead camera - one from the rear and one from the front. These are all cool toys to play with.

kingdragonfly

11003 posts

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#2964849 8-Sep-2022 20:59

Given the outrageous price of Harley's he's probably right it'll be cheaper than a new one, and a lot less obnoxious.

I wonder if any motorcycle gang would allow a member to use it in a rally.

The American Gypsy Joker gang required their members own a "Harley-type" motorcycle and be able to drive 100 miles, 160 KM, without refilling.

The DIY Electric Harley: The First Signs of Life

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teihoata

100 posts

Master Geek

#2964937 9-Sep-2022 08:56

Obraik:

Scott3:

Just looked up the EV6 Air LR price in the UK. GBP 44,195 on the road. (In NZ the EV6 Air LR just squeaks in under the $80k rebate cap, after recent price drop). So basically no chance of any Mach-E trim being rebate eligible.

No rebate will make the RWD Mach-E pretty unattractive compared the longer range / larger battery EV6, and the more powerful Tesla model Y.

I would be very surprised if Ford don't price it under the rebate.

Just on this, I've had a google ad popup from ford which has 3-4 slides. It goes through 3 different hybrid/ev cars saying how much you'd get back from the nz gov subsidy. On the second to last slide it lists the mach-e with the full $8625 rebate available. I clicked on the ad and it took me to https://www.ford.co.nz/electric/
I'll see if I can grab a screenshot if it ever pops up again

Scott3

3923 posts

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#2964971 9-Sep-2022 10:29

Obraik:

Scott3:

Just looked up the EV6 Air LR price in the UK. GBP 44,195 on the road. (In NZ the EV6 Air LR just squeaks in under the $80k rebate cap, after recent price drop). So basically no chance of any Mach-E trim being rebate eligible.

No rebate will make the RWD Mach-E pretty unattractive compared the longer range / larger battery EV6, and the more powerful Tesla model Y.

I would be very surprised if Ford don't price it under the rebate.

The same "no chance" theory was pretty common for the Model Y before Tesla launched it here and yet Tesla priced it just under the rebate and has kept it there despite price rises in almost every other country. I suspect Ford will do the same, just to compete against Tesla. Ford also needs to sell a lot of Mach-E's so they don't get large fees for all the Rangers they sell when the Clean Car programme starts affecting dealers next year.

Also keep in mind that in the US, the entry level Mach-E is priced US$2k lower than even the RWD Model 3.

I looked into the US Mach E pricing.

Tesla is not the best comparison, as they have a policy of not ripping off small markets like NZ, unlike some other brands.

But the base Mach-E price in the USA comes in between the Standard range and Long range RWD E6, both cars that are available under the rebate cap in NZ. In that light a sub $80k entry point seems viable.

Very dramatic price difference between US and UK for the Mach e.

Point about the Clean Car Standard is valid too. Fords vehicle mix likely makes it one of the highes emitting of the mainstream brands. Just looked up registration year to date (includes used imports):

Ranger: 6,513
Everest: 657
Escape: 439
Transit: 346
Mustang: 316
Puma: 287
Focus: 163
Kuga: 104

Others are all under 100

Ranger absolutely dominates their sales, and four out of the top 5 are fairly high emitting models.

On the ranger, Ford NZ has recently introduced a v6 diesel power train, and changed the power train in the raptor from a 2L turbo diesel to a 3L v6 turbo petrol (13.8L/100km WLTP), which will worsen their fleet average.

So yes, once the clean car standard gets rolling, every Mach-e they sell will reduce the fine's they have to pay, or credits they have to buy from other automakers. (And I bet car brands hate buying credits from Tesla).

DS248

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#2964982 9-Sep-2022 11:06

Scott3:

...

Point about the Clean Car Standard is valid too. Fords vehicle mix likely makes it one of the highes emitting of the mainstream brands. Just looked up registration year to date (includes used imports):

Ranger: 6,513
Everest: 657
Escape: 439
Transit: 346
Mustang: 316
Puma: 287
Focus: 163
Kuga: 104
Others are all under 100

Ranger absolutely dominates their sales, and four out of the top 5 are fairly high emitting models.

On the ranger, Ford NZ has recently introduced a v6 diesel power train, and changed the power train in the raptor from a 2L turbo diesel to a 3L v6 turbo petrol (13.8L/100km WLTP), which will worsen their fleet average.

So yes, once the clean car standard gets rolling, every Mach-e they sell will reduce the fine's they have to pay, or credits they have to buy from other automakers. (And I bet car brands hate buying credits from Tesla).

I assume the new E-Transit and Escape PHEVs (and other hybrids) are aimed at alleviating that situation as well as the new Mach-E. Their NZ site does discuss the Clean Car issue

https://www.drivelife.co.nz/2022/07/mustang-mach-e-confirmed-for-nz-early-2023/

"The Mustang Mach-E will join an almost entirely electrified Ford NZ vehicle line-up including the New E-Transit Cargo, Transit Custom PHEV, Focus and Puma mild hybrids and Escape Plug-in hybrid and full hybrid."

Obraik

2120 posts

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#2964996 9-Sep-2022 11:23

I believe they get more "credit" by selling a BEV vs a PHEV.

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Scott3

3923 posts

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#2965069 9-Sep-2022 12:01

DS248:

Scott3:

...

Point about the Clean Car Standard is valid too. Fords vehicle mix likely makes it one of the highes emitting of the mainstream brands. Just looked up registration year to date (includes used imports):

Ranger: 6,513
Everest: 657
Escape: 439
Transit: 346
Mustang: 316
Puma: 287
Focus: 163
Kuga: 104
Others are all under 100

Ranger absolutely dominates their sales, and four out of the top 5 are fairly high emitting models.

On the ranger, Ford NZ has recently introduced a v6 diesel power train, and changed the power train in the raptor from a 2L turbo diesel to a 3L v6 turbo petrol (13.8L/100km WLTP), which will worsen their fleet average.

So yes, once the clean car standard gets rolling, every Mach-e they sell will reduce the fine's they have to pay, or credits they have to buy from other automakers. (And I bet car brands hate buying credits from Tesla).

I assume the new E-Transit and Escape PHEVs (and other hybrids) are aimed at alleviating that situation as well as the new Mach-E. Their NZ site does discuss the Clean Car issue

https://www.drivelife.co.nz/2022/07/mustang-mach-e-confirmed-for-nz-early-2023/

"The Mustang Mach-E will join an almost entirely electrified Ford NZ vehicle line-up including the New E-Transit Cargo, Transit Custom PHEV, Focus and Puma mild hybrids and Escape Plug-in hybrid and full hybrid."

That quote may be true, but ignores that a disproportionate volume of Ford NZ sales come from a small part of their lineup. Cira 80% from the Ranger / Everest.

Ranger: 6,513
Everest: 657
Escape: 439 (PHEV available, FHEV available)
Transit: 346 (Pure EV full size transit coming)
Mustang: 316
Puma: 287 (mild hybrid available)
Focus: 163 (mild hybrid available)
Kuga: 104 (mild hybrid coming)
Transit custom / Toreno: 5 (PHEV coming, pure electric coming 2024)
Mach E (Pure EV coming)

And the mustang is sting at number 5 in the list, with the most popular model being the v8 auto. 14.5L/100km / 329g CO2/km wltp conversion.

Still to be seen what the take rate on the EV / hybrid offerings will be. In the case of the transit, given there are eight versions of the current transit, and I think only one version of the electric transit is being offered, there is a good chance that many use cases won't be filled by the EV version (even before considering range). That said, between the EV Transit and EV / PHEV Transit custom, ford could potentially win a lot of sales off the likes of Toyota & Hyundai if those brands continue to not offer any plug in van's in NZ.

Also Mild hybrids don't result in a massive emissions reduction. Take the Puma Mild hybrid as an example. Rated at 5.4L/100km (Octane not on spec sheet) / 124g/km co2. Just a 21g/km co2 better than the target in 2023, and into the fine territory by 2025

Ultimately, given credit's can be sold between brands (And the new fleet as a whole is likely to be well into fine territory), it doesn't actually matter what a brands fleet make up is. Every EV sold in NZ is going to be worth upwards of $1000 in clean car standard credits (don't have the value on hand), which if a brand doesn't need to use internally, can sell to another brand. This add's $1000+ in margin to each EV sold, meaning EV's can be sold at a lesser price to maintain the same margin.

wellygary

8214 posts

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#2965092 9-Sep-2022 13:35

Scott3:

Every EV sold in NZ is going to be worth upwards of $1000 in clean car standard credits (don't have the value on hand), which if a brand doesn't need to use internally, can sell to another brand. This add's $1000+ in margin to each EV sold, meaning EV's can be sold at a lesser price to maintain the same margin.

In a perfect market yes, but with the current demand outstripping supply and multi-month wait times I get the feeling brands like Tesla will simply pocket the $1000 as a nice profit....

kingdragonfly

11003 posts

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#2965120 9-Sep-2022 14:36

Two related links

Newsweek: Disgruntled Tesla Owners Say They Have Carried Out A Hunger Strike

Disgruntled Tesla owners say they have carried out a hunger strike.

A Norwegian group carried out their protest after saying they have found multiple faults with their electric vehicles. The protest lasted for 24 hours, starting on Saturday, August 27.

A list of alleged complaints includes poor customer service, rust, and bubbles in seats. The drivers spelled out the word 'help' with their vehicles.
...
GitHub: Tesla Model Y Delivery Checklist

The following is a distillation of posts from r/TeslaModelY. The list is not meant to replace Tesla's QC and thus doesn't offer 100% coverage. Rather, these contributions from MY owners who already walked the path aim to cover recurring problems that unfortunately seem to escape quality control (QC) at the factory as well as at the service centers.

Use it to guide your inspection, document findings, assemble a list of problems to be handled by Tesla as pre-delivery issue(s) or refuse delivery.
...

Scott3

3923 posts

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#2965146 9-Sep-2022 15:46

wellygary:

Scott3:

Every EV sold in NZ is going to be worth upwards of $1000 in clean car standard credits (don't have the value on hand), which if a brand doesn't need to use internally, can sell to another brand. This add's $1000+ in margin to each EV sold, meaning EV's can be sold at a lesser price to maintain the same margin.

In a perfect market yes, but with the current demand outstripping supply and multi-month wait times I get the feeling brands like Tesla will simply pocket the $1000 as a nice profit....

Absolutely it is the retailers call if they keep that margin themselves, of hold their margin steady by dropping prices (or somewhere in-between). Both are good for EV's as a whole.

If automakers keep the added margin, that will increase the profit margin from their EV's, encouraging increased production, marketing, R&D etc of their EV's.

If automakers keep a steady margin, this will enable them to drop prices, which (assuming they are able to supply more cars), will make their product more attractive to buyers, and grow their market share in the EV space. Will also build green cred. Doubt any brand want's their brand on the TV news as having the dirtiest fleet average of a mainstream brand.

Either way, importers like Ford NZ will be keen to increase their EV allocations (lobbying ford head office for a bigger allocation). Manufactures like Tesla will be incentive's to sell more EV's car's in NZ, Not sure if they prioritize countries for allocations of car's, but it could be by doing things like adding more supercharges, or service center's (they only have three at the moment).

The level of margins before the value of the credits, supply ability, will largely decide which is the most profitable option. Stuff like interaction between models (i.e. will a cheaper Mach-E hurt V8 mustang sales), and the value of green cred to the brand could also have an impact.

On delivery times, I get the impression that EV production is catching up to the demand surge of earlier this year (and there might be a bit of a demand lull in Europe due to high power prices due to the war).

Tesla's shanghai factory seems to be cranking now. They delivered 1328 car's in NZ last month. Got an email promoting their Model 3 Inventory yesterday. Prior email from them was back in February. And we have numerous desirable EV launches pending in NZ like the Skoda Enyaq, Ford Mach-E & Facelift MG ZS EV.

GV27

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#2965422 10-Sep-2022 13:25

Scott3:

On delivery times, I get the impression that EV production is catching up to the demand surge of earlier this year (and there might be a bit of a demand lull in Europe due to high power prices due to the war).

I think the cars coming down now have the full array of kit as well - previously you could get an EV but there was no assurances that your E-Tron would actually have things like TPMS and so on that is fairly standard for some of these price brackets.

Going to be a bit of a tricky period in the used market when these ones filter through as trim levels won't give you a good handle on what a car actually does or doesn't have fitted.

Technofreak

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#2965425 10-Sep-2022 14:16

Scott3:

Either way, importers like Ford NZ will be keen to increase their EV allocations (lobbying ford head office for a bigger allocation). Manufactures like Tesla will be incentive's to sell more EV's car's in NZ, Not sure if they prioritize countries for allocations of car's, but it could be by doing things like adding more supercharges, or service center's (they only have three at the moment).

It'd be nice to think this might apply for New Zealand but in reality we're a pimple on the manufacturers a**e so far as their total production goes. I sadly doubt what happens here has much influence on how, when or what they bring to this country.

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Batman

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#2968767 15-Sep-2022 19:23

https://www.mgmotor.eu/model/marvel-r

3 motors

2 speed gearbox

but how far will it go ... and how fast will the battery degrade ...

hopefully it's a start to many good things, tech can only improve i guess

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