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Dingbatt
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  #2969691 18-Sep-2022 12:04
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everettpsycho:
everettpsycho: Is anyone else in Christchurch thinking of heading to the take charge event over the weekend?

https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/whats-on/event/take-charge-christchurch-expo

We might pop in even if it's just to be nosey at Te Pae seeing as it's a free event. Might be a good chance to see the newer vehicles in the flesh all in one place.


We went along to this earlier and it was cool but literally just a load of cars parked up from most confirmed manufacturers. Very much felt like each dealership sent a car and one sales rep and there was no representation from the brands themselves, just the local dealerships. You generally could get to see the vehicles easier with less crowding just visiting the appropriate dealership.

Feels like a missed opportunity and would have been nice to get some unreleased vehicles or brand representation for people to see. If you can't get in to town to attend you won't be missing loads, but worth a stop by if your at all interested and in town anyway.

 

 

 

I too popped into Te Pae for a look. I disagree about the brand representation though. I was able to talk to representatives from head office about the Mach-E, the Solterra and the iD4. From what I could ascertain these are the only examples of those vehicles in the country at the moment, and that alone made the visit worthwhile. LDV had a LHD version of their Ute. Relatively well appointed, but I’m not sure it warrants the $80K price tag though.
Another advantage was being able to see a lot of EVs in one space, particularly to compare size, ground clearance, etc.

 

The other question I asked was to do with deposits being refundable, particularly on vehicles you couldn’t even test drive at the moment. Most seemed to indicate it would be refundable.





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jarledb
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  #2970716 21-Sep-2022 04:43
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Here is a great article about how little electricity EVs actually use that can be used next time a troll points out how EVs will take down the powergrid.

 

Google translated article from the Norwegian Electric Car Association: This is how little electricity EVs use

 

"Electric cars use only 0.8 percent of total electricity production in Norway".

 

And that is with 520,000 EVs in Norway.





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lchiu7
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  #2970818 21-Sep-2022 09:56
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I was having  discussion with a friend in California about EV's and shared this article

 

 

 

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/08/evs-electric-power-grid-strain-charging

 

 

 

He is strongly against the CA mandate of no ICE's by 2035. He made this argument

 

 

 

 

My Central AC uses 3.5KW an hour. So charging a Tesla could run my AC for 28 hours. Even a small car like the Nissan Leaf has a 40KW battery which would run my AC for 11 hours. So charging these cars at night from say 10:00PM to 4:00AM is like running your AC for 6 hours minimum. CA has 14.2 million registered cars with 435K being electric.  What happens to our grid when 50% of these cars are electric? Its like a summer heatwave every single evening! We can’t even support 430K cars we have today. I am not opposed to electric cars but if the government is going to force us to switch over to electric they will have to build more power plants. And if they are going to ask us to put solar on our roofs and store the power during the day in batteries that will add so much cost that it will price it out of range for the average person. 

 

   

 

 

Anybody see any flaws in this argument?



SaltyNZ
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  #2970820 21-Sep-2022 10:03
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Starting with '3.5kW an hour'?





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tdgeek
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  #2970825 21-Sep-2022 10:17
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SaltyNZ:

 

Starting with '3.5kW an hour'?

 

 

Having spent a lot of time there on and off they hammer the AC. I assume they run 2 or 3 units?


tdgeek
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  #2970826 21-Sep-2022 10:18
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lchiu7:

 

Anybody see any flaws in this argument?

 

 

If they have generation issues, that's likely a flaw. Lots of people in a small area


DS248
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  #2970829 21-Sep-2022 10:25
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lchiu7:  ... Anybody see any flaws in this argument?

 

 

 

Like the assumption that every car will need to be charged from 0 to 100% every night?




lchiu7
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  #2970833 21-Sep-2022 10:28
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tdgeek:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

Starting with '3.5kW an hour'?

 

 

Having spent a lot of time there on and off they hammer the AC. I assume they run 2 or 3 units?

 

 

My friend lives in Orange County which gets quite hot. And if I recall when I visited he ran central AC so that is the capacity of the central unit.


SaltyNZ
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  #2970835 21-Sep-2022 10:31
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tdgeek:

 

Having spent a lot of time there on and off they hammer the AC. I assume they run 2 or 3 units?

 

 

 

 

It's more that their units are wrong. The AC uses 3.5kW. Not 3.5kW an hour.

 

 





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lchiu7
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  #2970836 21-Sep-2022 10:31
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DS248:

 

lchiu7:  ... Anybody see any flaws in this argument?

 

 

 

Like the assumption that every car will need to be charged from 0 to 100% every night?

 

 

 

 

I did realise that after his note. Assuming cars have a WLTP of about 240 miles even in California he's not going to drive on average more than 50-100/day so he can charge every two days or so. Wasn't worth the friendship to get into a big argument about it.


tdgeek
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  #2970838 21-Sep-2022 10:34
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In any case they may have a generation capacity issue. Most of the US infrastructure is old and tired, power will be no different I expect


lchiu7
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  #2970899 21-Sep-2022 11:14
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This is another point made in the article (albiet with no references)

 

Reality check: EVs aren't what's straining the grid. California had roughly 680,000 registered EVs as of July 1, per S&P Global Mobility, accounting for less than 1% of the state's total electricity demand.

 

  • Even if there are 5 million EVs by 2030, they'll account for about 7% of annual electricity usage and 1% of peak demand, according to the California Air Resources Board.

 

 

So generation does not appear to be the problem


wellygary
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  #2970904 21-Sep-2022 11:32
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This is pretty back of the envelope stuff, but its a reasonable sample (50,000EVs in CA)

 

Researchers from the University of Chicago, University of California Davis, and UC Berkeley instead drew their estimates from a sample of roughly 10 percent of the residential electricity meters from Pacific Gas & Electric (a total of 362,945 households). These meter readings were then compared with EV registration records from 2014 through 2017 and the addresses where an EV was registered—a total of 57,290 electric vehicles—were then checked to see how much extra energy was used there to arrive at an estimate about how much extra household electricity was required once an EV was purchased. The result was 0.12 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per hour, or 2.9 kilowatt-hours each day. Another factor taken into consideration came from the California Air Resources Board, which has estimated that "upward of 85 percent of EV charging occurs at home."

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35498794/ev-owners-low-mileage-study/

 

2.9 kwh * 365 = ~1000 Kwh... or 1 MWh per house annually 

 

Lets assume that's the power requirement per EV,  so for 15 million EVs we need 15 million MWh, which is 15,000 GWh, sounds like a huge number until you see that annually CA uses 270.000 GWh, so its roughly 5% of total power demand BASED on CURRENT POWER production, 

 

I'm pretty sure they might be building a few more power plants over the next 10 years.

 

Tell your mate not to worry, 

 

 

 

 


DS248
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  #2970908 21-Sep-2022 11:52
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lchiu7:

 

DS248: ...

 

Like the assumption that every car will need to be charged from 0 to 100% every night? 

 

I did realise that after his note. Assuming cars have a WLTP of about 240 miles even in California he's not going to drive on average more than 50-100/day so he can charge every two days or so. Wasn't worth the friendship to get into a big argument about it. 

 

 

 

A factor of two is not even close.  In terms of impact on the CA power supply, it's not how often he might charge, it's the average frequency * kWh per charge for all EV's.   And even on your estimated figures for his situation above, it is not 0 - 100% charge every second day.


DS248
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  #2970918 21-Sep-2022 12:16
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FWIW, average miles per vehicle per capita in CA is ~8,794*,** (2008-10 figure, slowly falling), which equates to ~11,650 per vehicle/year.  A bit less than 32 m/day per vehicle, which at 0.27 kWh/mile*** comes to 8.6 kWh/day.  If EV's for 50% of vehicles in ten years, average impact per vehicle is 4.3 kWh/day.  Similar to a 2 kW heater on for 2 hours/day.

 

Annual Miles Traveled - Datasets - California Open Data

 

**   lower in major urban areas such as LA & SF
*** for a Polestar 2.  Probably better efficiency in 10 yrs?  

 

 


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