EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2988676 27-Oct-2022 12:41

amanzi:

Thanks - I'll watch that now. I have heard of David Cebon recently after reading this article: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/30-08-2022/has-the-government-been-fooled-into-embracing-green-hydrogen

I understand that with today's technology Hydrogen is inefficient and in countries that rely on fossil fuels for electricity generation, it's not very clean either. But does that apply to us in NZ (currently operating at 93% renewable generation as at 7:30am this morning) and couldn't this improve over time with investment and innovation?

The inefficiencies you mention is one of the biggest issues with hydrogen. The same electricity used to move a hydrogen vehicle 100km could move a BEV 300km. It's rather wasteful of resources and money to go with hydrogen rather than just powering the vehicle directly with electricity.

Still, we should be using excess power generation to make hydrogen. However, rather than using that hydrogen for transport it should be used for replacing coal for things like smelting steel, etc.

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gzt

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#2988677 27-Oct-2022 12:42

kiwifidget: But does a hybrid recharge if the ICE doesnt get used ie too many short trips in a row??

Short answer is yes it recharges, hybrid batteries are tiny because the battery provides only a small assist. Generally you don't need to worry about it at all. I've been driving hybrid Toyota for a while. If the management system thinks the hybrid battery needs extra juice for some reason, it automatically runs the a bit ice longer. Tldr; not a problem.

DS248

1691 posts

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#2988684 27-Oct-2022 13:09

gzt:
kiwifidget: But does a hybrid recharge if the ICE doesnt get used ie too many short trips in a row??

Short answer is yes it recharges, hybrid batteries are tiny because the battery provides only a small assist. Generally you don't need to worry about it at all. I've been driving hybrid Toyota for a while. If the management system thinks the hybrid battery needs extra juice for some reason, it automatically runs the a bit ice longer. Tldr; not a problem.

Err ??

If the ICE does not run then no, the battery of a non-plugin hybrid does not (re)charge.

But as per gzt post, the car will manage it so the ICE does run and recharge the battery. That will happen automatically so not something the driver needs to be concerned about. But the only source of charging for a non-plugin hybrid is the ICE.

tripper1000

1609 posts

Uber Geek

#2988745 27-Oct-2022 14:08

Obraik: ... Still, we should be using excess power generation to make hydrogen. However, rather than using that hydrogen for transport it should be used for replacing coal for things like smelting steel, etc.

There is the first problem with the green hydrogen sales-pitch: There is no such thing as excess power generation in most parts of the world including N.Z.

Long story short, 95% of the world hydrogen comes from crude oil, and the other 5% is just a really inefficient way to store electricity.

Hydrogen's main (and possibly only?) advantage is power to weight ratio (think aircraft). For wired applications, such as factories, grid storage etc, other electrical technology is more efficient.

Electricity can be used directly in smelting steel (arc furnaces) much more efficiently. In N.Z. there is not even appetite for using electricity to smelt aluminium, which is entirely dependant on electricity. We're apparently happy to send that off-shore to be smeltered using electricity made from natural gas and produce >10 tonnes of CO2 more per tonne of aluminium that N.Z. produced aluminium. (N.Z.'s green credentials are not as green as our tourism ad's make out).

Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2988836 27-Oct-2022 15:29

tripper1000:

Electricity can be used directly in smelting steel (arc furnaces) much more efficiently. In N.Z. there is not even appetite for using electricity to smelt aluminium, which is entirely dependant on electricity. We're apparently happy to send that off-shore to be smeltered using electricity made from natural gas and produce >10 tonnes of CO2 more per tonne of aluminium that N.Z. produced aluminium. (N.Z.'s green credentials are not as green as our tourism ad's make out).

Tiwai point is an aluminium smelter powered by hydro power.

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kiwifidget

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3380 posts

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#2988850 27-Oct-2022 16:23

@gzt @ds248 thank you, I think.

Looks like conflicting answers but I think I get the gist of it.

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wellygary

8261 posts

Uber Geek

#2988851 27-Oct-2022 16:32

Obraik:

tripper1000:

Electricity can be used directly in smelting steel (arc furnaces) much more efficiently. In N.Z. there is not even appetite for using electricity to smelt aluminium, which is entirely dependant on electricity. We're apparently happy to send that off-shore to be smeltered using electricity made from natural gas and produce >10 tonnes of CO2 more per tonne of aluminium that N.Z. produced aluminium. (N.Z.'s green credentials are not as green as our tourism ad's make out).

Tiwai point is an aluminium smelter powered by hydro power.

I think the point the OP is making is that currently the smelter will cease operation in 2024, and there is a wilful clamour from political classes to let the smelter leave and replace it with a "green hydrogen" fandangle - despite many people in NZ suffering winter energy poverty.

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Obraik

2121 posts

Uber Geek

#2988853 27-Oct-2022 16:38

This convo isn't related to EVs anymore, but last I heard Rio Tinto is looking to keep operating beyond 2024 now.

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gzt

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#2988884 27-Oct-2022 18:09

kiwifidget:
@gzt @ds248 thank you, I think.

Looks like conflicting answers but I think I get the gist of it.

No conflict, ds248 is correct also. In practice that's all automatic and is not something the driver needs to consider.

jarledb

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#2988934 27-Oct-2022 21:00

Please keep the conversation on topic going forward. Any off-topic follow ups will be deleted. If you want to discuss something not directly related to EVs, please create a new thread for it.

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afe66

3181 posts

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#2989147 28-Oct-2022 11:24

I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers. I'm sure they would claim the clean car rebate and the fringe ben fit tax exception too

https://youtu.be/2E9TUQopIwc

GV27

5885 posts

Uber Geek

#2989199 28-Oct-2022 11:52

afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers. I'm sure they would claim the clean car rebate and the fringe ben fit tax exception too

https://youtu.be/2E9TUQopIwc

There is no ute-specific FBT exemption.

HarmLessSolutions

956 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2989200 28-Oct-2022 11:56

GV27:

afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers. I'm sure they would claim the clean car rebate and the fringe ben fit tax exception too

https://youtu.be/2E9TUQopIwc

There is no ute-specific FBT exemption.

See page 8: https://www.ird.govt.nz/-/media/project/ir/home/documents/forms-and-guides/ir400---ir499/ir409/ir409-2022.pdf?modified=20220407231310&modified=20220407231310

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Dingbatt

6741 posts

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#2989201 28-Oct-2022 12:00

afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers. I'm sure they would claim the clean car rebate and the fringe ben fit tax exception too

https://youtu.be/2E9TUQopIwc

For anybody that can’t be bothered copy/pasting the url, it references FullyCharged’s video review of the Geely Radar RD6. Announced in July, released in China in September.

The vehicle looks like its front is ‘inspired’ by a cross between the latest Kia and Mitsubishi design language.

Might be a useful addition to the NZ fleet once its real world range and towing capability is announced.

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GV27

5885 posts

Uber Geek

#2989210 28-Oct-2022 12:31

HarmLessSolutions:

See page 8: https://www.ird.govt.nz/-/media/project/ir/home/documents/forms-and-guides/ir400---ir499/ir409/ir409-2022.pdf?modified=20220407231310&modified=20220407231310

This doesn't mean there is a specific exemption for utes. This is one of the most common FBT errors/misunderstandings, to the extent that the IRD has a specific warning on their website about it.

Double cab utes

A common error we see is the FBT treatment of double cab utes. Utes may be considered work related as they are dual purpose vehicles, however this does not mean they are automatically exempt from FBT. These vehicles still need to meet the conditions above.

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