Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | ... | 272
Aredwood
3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #1886601 20-Oct-2017 01:08
quote this post

Linuxluver:

I'm a fan of keeping it simple. 

One price everywhere for power at any time of the day or night and set so it is profitable enough to invest in more generation as required. 

Add to that a requirement for all homes to generate and store 20kWh / day each - including apartments - and you'll find you don't actually need much of the existing generation capacity. 

These complex pricing models for everything - power, water, roads, whatever - just waste an enormous amount of time on bureaucracy both personal and organisational and for what? Just because? I have better things to do.....and I know from experience all this raw of tooth and claw market forces "targeting" is a huge waste of time and a barrier to just doing the business you want to do.......instead of also having to manage all these inputs and infrastructure as well.....to be more "efficient". It's fiction that so many extra layers of added requirement results in efficiency. Maybe though each myopic keyhole of concern......but in the big picture? No way. You have to employ several extra people just to analyse and cope with the added complexity.   

 

 

Have a read of the Vector Price schedule for Auckland. It has fixed price options, time of use price options, and capacity based pricing options. Residential low users are charged 10.37c per unit, for just lines charges. Sure, standard user has a 6.45c /unit surcharge, but then you have to pay $1.01 per day in fixed fees.

 

Residential off peak is 2.52c / unit. Imagine if this was available for all low income households. You would get an end price of only around 10c / unit or less for offpeak power. That would help low income people immensely to keep warm during winter. Instead of paying around 30c per unit after all other surcharges are added in.

 

And commercial rates go as low as 0.57c / unit. (Price category code WLVH) For an electricity connection that is almost exactly the same as what your house has. Yes I know that you have to pay seperately for capacity, KVAR (power factor), daily demand, excess demand. But if you are careful, you can keep the add on costs low. While still having a high total usage. Meaning that your overall cost per unit of power used is far lower than what you can get on residential power plans. Note that if your usage pattern is a large load that runs 24/7, You get the best overall cost per unit of these type of plans. (EG - a Data Centre).

 

This pricing accurately reflects the cost of building a power lines network. Imagine a customer has a peak load of 500KVA. It doesn't matter if they draw that 500KVA for just 1 hour per year, Or if they draw that load 24/7, Or any "In between". They are still going to require the exact same amount of network capacity to supply that load. If the customer want's the ability to use that load at any time they feel like doing so.

 

Now if that customer is willing to agree to not draw that 500KVA load during peak times, the lines network can then resell that same capacity to other customers. So the network gets more revenue without needing to build any new assets. Cost savings can be passed on in lower prices.  And that customer can then negotiate a cheaper price per unit from their electricity retailer. As the retailer can make use of mostly idle generation capacity.

 

Imagine that end customer uses the electricity for pottery kilns or another type of high temp oven. Often such ovens can easily be operated on Natural Gas instead. So the customer uses gas during peak usage times (meaning they don't need to pay peak prices). And uses electricity during offpeak times. The environment wins - mostly renewable energy gets used, and the gas used offsets gas or coal that would have been used in a power station + twice as efficient to burn gas at the point of energy use, instead of in a power station. While the customer, retailer, and network all benefit from lower costs.

 

Sure, not every customer would be able to reduce their peak loads so easily. But the ones who can reduce their loads at at little cost to themselves will do so. There is always a cost to meet peak loads. (whether the customer self manages the load or pays the network to provide that load). Having separate capacity or peak / offpeak charges both ensures that the person who can meet the load for the lowest economic cost does so. And helps to ensure that the carbon emissions from energy use align with costs. Making sure that the polluter pays the full cost of their emissions, while at the same time avoiding situations where emitting more carbon is cheaper.






Aredwood
3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #1886604 20-Oct-2017 01:32
quote this post

 And you also need to consider how peak load electricity is normally generated - Diesel engines. Here is an old but purpose built peak generation plant.

 

 

And a smaller version

 

 

Generators similar to this are a mainstay of diesel peaking generation. Less than 20 seconds between starting and outputting full power. And as you can see - no emissions controls. Even coal is clean in comparison. Be careful charging an electric car or using any power during peak times unless necessary. The power could be coming from an diesel engine.






 
 
 
 


MarkH67
401 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1890938 26-Oct-2017 19:07
Send private message quote this post

MarkH67:

 

Last year a friend of my bought a Ford Focus 2L turbo diesel, I've driven it and it is quite a quick little beast.  This week he showed me a quote he got from the Ford service agents in town for oil, filters and labour for a standard service (engine & trans) - total cost of $1,150. 

 

 

 

 

and now . . . he is seriously looking at selling that Focus and buying a Nissan Leaf! With the diesel price, RUC cost & servicing cost it isn't all that cheap to run a diesel vehicle.

 

He still hasn't had another quote but someone else told me of a person being charged $1,400 for a service on a Toyota Hilux by a Toyota dealership.  It seems that servicing for diesel vehicles is often quite pricey.


Linuxluver

5615 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1891097 27-Oct-2017 00:33
Send private message quote this post

Aredwood:

 

 And you also need to consider how peak load electricity is normally generated - Diesel engines. Here is an old but purpose built peak generation plant.

 

 

 

.....

 

Generators similar to this are a mainstay of diesel peaking generation. Less than 20 seconds between starting and outputting full power. And as you can see - no emissions controls. Even coal is clean in comparison. Be careful charging an electric car or using any power during peak times unless necessary. The power could be coming from an diesel engine.

 



That's their problem. I'll look after my emissions and vote for people who will make dirty power generatoros look after theirs if they won't do it without being compelled to. In the meantime, I don't give them any money.

I'm definitely not going to be held hostqage by people who fail to act on this problem. I'm coming for them politically.





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


kingdragonfly
5126 posts

Uber Geek


  #1891108 27-Oct-2017 07:08
Send private message quote this post

From AP News

https://apnews.com/21e3acc76ad94061a686644d5f8ee00a/New-Zealand-aims-to-go-green-with-electricity,-tree-planting

"New Zealand’s incoming government is hoping to make the nation greener by planting 100 million trees each year, ensuring the electricity grid runs entirely from renewable energy, and spending more money on cycle ways and rail transport."

PhantomNVD
2621 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1891142 27-Oct-2017 09:00
Send private message quote this post

kingdragonfly: From AP News

https://apnews.com/21e3acc76ad94061a686644d5f8ee00a/New-Zealand-aims-to-go-green-with-electricity,-tree-planting

"New Zealand’s incoming government is hoping to make the nation greener by planting 100 million trees each year, ensuring the electricity grid runs entirely from renewable energy, and spending more money on cycle ways and rail transport."

 

 

 

@kingdragonfly I'm not really sure the relevance of tree planting on this specific thread but here is the (currently most tranding thread on the site) discussion of this:

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=223939

 

 

 

perhaps we should kick off a "What am I doing about my Carbon Footprint" thread for this general discussion instead?


kingdragonfly
5126 posts

Uber Geek


  #1891183 27-Oct-2017 10:33
Send private message quote this post

As probably everyone knows, China is getting into electric vehicles in a big way in the near future.

Their thinking, and others, is that electric vehicles is cleaner than petrol engines.

I've heard the counter argument that if electricity is coming from burning coal, you're not really improving the environment.

So if we go for more renewable energy, it means EV owners can feel even better about their cars.

 
 
 
 


paulchinnz
Circumspice
688 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1891202 27-Oct-2017 10:45
Send private message quote this post

@PhantomNVD - I was also confused about how tree planting ensures the electricity grid runs entirely from renewables.

 

However, looks like that sentence is a list of things to do for the govt i.e. "...hoping to make the nation greener by: 1) planting 100 million trees each year, 2) ensuring the electricity grid runs entirely from renewable energy, and 3) spending more money on cycle ways and rail transport."


frankv
3941 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1891207 27-Oct-2017 10:48
Send private message quote this post

paulchinnz:

 

@PhantomNVD - I was also confused about how tree planting ensures the electricity grid runs entirely from renewables.

 

 

Bury the trees for 20,000 years?

 

 


Jeeves
302 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1891341 27-Oct-2017 12:53
Send private message quote this post

kingdragonfly: As probably everyone knows, China is getting into electric vehicles in a big way in the near future.

Their thinking, and others, is that electric vehicles is cleaner than petrol engines.

I've heard the counter argument that if electricity is coming from burning coal, you're not really improving the environment.

So if we go for more renewable energy, it means EV owners can feel even better about their cars.

 

 

 

A recent study in the EU came out to say that EV was still cleaner. Some 72% of China power is coal - the closest EU country I could find in the study to that of China, is Poland at 83%. 

 

A not so great EV (20kwh per KM) is worse than ICE and Diesel. A good EV (14.5kwh per KM) is better than ICE and Diesel. 

 

 

 

Leafs are between 15-20kwh per km.


kingdragonfly
5126 posts

Uber Geek


  #1891351 27-Oct-2017 13:06
Send private message quote this post

I'd guess large coal power plants don't "spin-up" and "spin-down" quickly.

In other words, once the furnaces are hot, it needs to stay hot throughout the night, so it's ready to use on-peak.

Some of EV recharging could happen off-peak, so it might not too bad even with coal.

http://ecoglobalfuels.com/news/potential-using-peak-waste-electricity

"Our current electricity system is based primarily on coal-fired power stations and natural gas fired power stations which cannot be turned on and off at short notice.

By generating power during times of peak demand (daytime) entails generating power during off-peak times (night-time), even if there is no demand for that power at a price that covers average costs."

paulchinnz
Circumspice
688 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1891497 27-Oct-2017 19:01
Send private message quote this post

@Jeeves confused about "20kwh per KM". Did you mean 20 kWh per 100 km?

 

My Leaf is currently doing 12 kWh per 100 km, but over winter in Chch was closer to 16 kWh per 100 km.


Yabanize
2284 posts

Uber Geek


  #1891511 27-Oct-2017 19:57
Send private message quote this post

In Christchurch the Yoogo car share service is launching soon. Got to go for a ride in one of their BMW i hatchbacks. Quite nice. Will be parked up in various places around the city with chargers. They reckoned you would be able to borrow one for an hour for $10


PhantomNVD
2621 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1891532 27-Oct-2017 20:27
Send private message quote this post

paulchinnz:

@Jeeves confused about "20kwh per KM". Did you mean 20 kWh per 100 km?


My Leaf is currently doing 12 kWh per 100 km, but over winter in Chch was closer to 16 kWh per 100 km.



Mine does 6.5kms per KWh so I got rather confused there too \_o_/

Linuxluver

5615 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1891621 27-Oct-2017 23:42
Send private message quote this post

kingdragonfly: As probably everyone knows, China is getting into electric vehicles in a big way in the near future.

Their thinking, and others, is that electric vehicles is cleaner than petrol engines.

I've heard the counter argument that if electricity is coming from burning coal, you're not really improving the environment.

So if we go for more renewable energy, it means EV owners can feel even better about their cars.


An EV is cleaner no matter what. 

What people who talk about coal-generated power fail to mention is the gigawatts of electricity used to refine oil.......which is then burned as fuel. Double whammy. 

Here's a study from this week (Guardian) that shows EVs are cleaner anyway......





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


1 | ... | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | ... | 272
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News »

Huawei launches IdeaHub Pro in New Zealand
Posted 27-Oct-2020 16:41


Southland-based IT specialist providing virtual services worldwide
Posted 27-Oct-2020 15:55


NASA discovers water on sunlit surface of Moon
Posted 27-Oct-2020 08:30


Huawei introduces new features to Petal Search, Maps and Docs
Posted 26-Oct-2020 18:05


Nokia selected by NASA to build first ever cellular network on the Moon
Posted 21-Oct-2020 08:34


Nanoleaf enhances lighting line with launch of Triangles and Mini Triangles
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:18


Synology unveils DS16211+
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:12


Ingram Micro introduces FootfallCam to New Zealand channel
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:06


Dropbox adopts Virtual First working policy
Posted 17-Oct-2020 19:47


OPPO announces Reno4 Series 5G line-up in NZ
Posted 16-Oct-2020 08:52


Microsoft Highway to a Hundred expands to Asia Pacific
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:34


Spark turns on 5G in Auckland
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:29


AMD Launches AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Desktop Processors
Posted 9-Oct-2020 10:13


Teletrac Navman launches integrated multi-camera solution for transport and logistics industry
Posted 8-Oct-2020 10:57


Farmside hits 10,000 RBI customers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 15:32









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.