EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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8218 posts

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#1896009 6-Nov-2017 13:51

MarkH67:

Linuxluver:

The new 2018 Nissan LEAF may be that sweet spot.

I see the 40kWh battery as a interim capacity, the 60kWh comes out the next year and I think within a couple more years will become the capacity on the base model.

40 KWh (36kwh) EGolf now has a NZ list price of $62K, its unclear what the trim level is, but it does appear that NZ dealers are aiming at the $60K level as a price point,

https://www.volkswagen.co.nz/new-cars/electric/

Next year's budget could be interesting, given the greens want to remove FBT from EVs and NZ first wants to ramp up govt department EV usage

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Linuxluver

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#1896130 6-Nov-2017 15:37

wellygary:

40 KWh (36kwh) EGolf now has a NZ list price of $62K, its unclear what the trim level is, but it does appear that NZ dealers are aiming at the $60K level as a price point,

https://www.volkswagen.co.nz/new-cars/electric/

Next year's budget could be interesting, given the greens want to remove FBT from EVs and NZ first wants to ramp up govt department EV usage

Yes...I'd love to see a fee-bate system where levies on dinosaur burners above a certain value go to making Evs cheaper for everyone. This would avoid impacting low-income people or people who wan't to drive a car worth less than $5000......for example. Even if it was just tagging the GST on the ICE cars for use as rebates on EVs. That would be revenue neutral to government and car buyers......but help make EVs cheaper quickly. Adding GST or a duty to used, imported fossil-fuel cars would be another step....

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MikeAqua

7769 posts

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#1896206 6-Nov-2017 16:39

Linuxluver:

Yes...I'd love to see a fee-bate system where levies on dinosaur burners above a certain value go to making Evs cheaper for everyone. This would avoid impacting low-income people or people who wan't to drive a car worth less than $5000......for example. Even if it was just tagging the GST on the ICE cars for use as rebates on EVs. That would be revenue neutral to government and car buyers......but help make EVs cheaper quickly. Adding GST or a duty to used, imported fossil-fuel cars would be another step....

By advancing that argument you are admitting EVs do not stack up economically on their own merits right now.

EVs are at the trendy/lifestyle stage of the 4 stage product life cycle. They are therefore expensive and hard to get new and will typically be owned by early adopters. ICE as a technology is at the commodity stage of that cycle. Therefore it is cheaper and ubiquitous - and works well.

It's not up to ICE owners (the vast majority of new car purchasers) to subsidise the early adopters of EVs. It's up to manufacturers of EVs to quickly improve performance and availability and decrease cost.

Government interference will slow this down.

Mike

KrazyKid

1238 posts

Uber Geek

#1896246 6-Nov-2017 17:11

MikeAqua:

It's not up to ICE owners (the vast majority of new car purchasers) to subsidise the early adopters of EVs. It's up to manufacturers of EVs to quickly improve performance and availability and decrease cost.

Government interference will slow this down.

Yes government inference will slow this down, but it will also increase the numbers of EV on the road (both as new cars and via the second hard market).
If you think CO2 levels are an issue this may be a desirable result at the cost of a reduction in the speed of manufacturing efficiency gains.

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1896321 6-Nov-2017 19:20

MikeAqua:

By advancing that argument you are admitting EVs do not stack up economically on their own merits right now.

I would have thought that it was very obvious to pretty much everyone that was the case, especially for new cars. Not for everyone of course, but for the majority of people.

But the idea of getting more people into EVs is that it helps the adoption of them. Once there are more EVs on the road there will be more charging stations added and we will end up with more second hand EVs available. Strong growth in EV sales (even if with the help of subsidies) means more manufacturers will make them, more models will be available and more money will be put into improving them. Once EVs reach critical mass there will be a 'run away' reaction and growth will be rapid, we will see this happen within the next decade.

Linuxluver

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#1896432 6-Nov-2017 21:30

MikeAqua:

Linuxluver:

Yes...I'd love to see a fee-bate system where levies on dinosaur burners above a certain value go to making Evs cheaper for everyone. This would avoid impacting low-income people or people who wan't to drive a car worth less than $5000......for example. Even if it was just tagging the GST on the ICE cars for use as rebates on EVs. That would be revenue neutral to government and car buyers......but help make EVs cheaper quickly. Adding GST or a duty to used, imported fossil-fuel cars would be another step....

By advancing that argument you are admitting EVs do not stack up economically on their own merits right now.

I don't have any prolem with that a all.....because for anyone who can't afford a car that costs over $10,000......that's absolutely true. They may save money in the long run, but there is no long run if they can't get over the sticker price speed bump. That time will come as EVs get cheaper over the next 4 years.....but we can avoid emitting a LOT of CO2 RIGHT NOW by making them more affordable now.

EVs are at the trendy/lifestyle stage of the 4 stage product life cycle. They are therefore expensive and hard to get new and will typically be owned by early adopters. ICE as a technology is at the commodity stage of that cycle. Therefore it is cheaper and ubiquitous - and works well.

If they were any ordinary product, I'd agree. But they aren't. They are the car people can drive without advancing climate change. That really matters. You didn't mention it.

It's not up to ICE owners (the vast majority of new car purchasers) to subsidise the early adopters of EVs. It's up to manufacturers of EVs to quickly improve performance and availability and decrease cost.

Government interference will slow this down.

Those ICE buyers need to not be ICE buyers for the long term welfare of their descendants. Meanwhile, myself and others are picking up their slack to try to help all of us. Helping EVs reach the point where economies of scale make the BETTER car more affordable is a total no-brainer.

I keep mentioning that and you keep forgetting it.

Don't forget it. It's really important.

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kingdragonfly

11008 posts

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#1904043 19-Nov-2017 14:59

Transport Evolved, Transportation News

Tesla Semi, Tesla Roadster 2, Faraday Future’s Future

wellygary

8218 posts

Uber Geek

#1904071 19-Nov-2017 16:16

kingdragonfly: Transport Evolved, Transportation News

Tesla Semi, Tesla Roadster 2, Faraday Future’s Future

At the moment that *ONLY* thing that people interested in Tesla should be watchng is the Model 3 ramp..... and turning reservations into cold hard cash,

frednz

1467 posts

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#1906035 22-Nov-2017 21:45

It’s interesting to see that 30,762 vehicles were registered for the month of October 2017, comprising 25,218 cars and 5,544 commercials.

There were 15,517 new vehicles registered and 15,245 used vehicles.

Out of the 30,762 vehicles registered, only 390 were classified as “electric” (1.3%).

It’s hard to imagine that we need to add another 30,000 vehicles to our roads in just one month, most of which burn petrol or diesel.

Ouch, it's going to take ages for EVs to comprise the majority of vehicles on our roads!

PhantomNVD

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#1906069 22-Nov-2017 22:09

Are those ‘used’ ones “new for NZ” or reregistered ones we had already?
Any this is exactly why we need to shuffle the deck a bit so EV’s stack up in their own right here and reduce/tax ESPECIALLY the new registration of ICE vehicles. So many car dealers have yet to discover the idea of EV’s too \_0_/

frednz

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#1906151 23-Nov-2017 09:19

PhantomNVD: Are those ‘used’ ones “new for NZ” or reregistered ones we had already?
Any this is exactly why we need to shuffle the deck a bit so EV’s stack up in their own right here and reduce/tax ESPECIALLY the new registration of ICE vehicles. So many car dealers have yet to discover the idea of EV’s too \_0_/

From the NZTA web site:

https://nzta.govt.nz/resources/new-zealand-motor-vehicle-register-statistics/additions-to-the-national-vehicle-fleet/

"Provides information on first-time registrations each month, including by vehicle type, import status, fuel type, cc rating and vehicle year.

Registration is the process of adding a vehicle to the Motor Vehicle Register: a vehicle, whether new or used, must first be registered before it can be used on the road. Registration has been traditionally confused with licensing: registration is normally carried out only once in the lifetime of a vehicle, whereas licensing is generally renewed every six or twelve months."

It's interesting that there were 566 petrol hybrid cars registered in October 2017 (173 new and 393 used), but these were not "pug-in" hybrids so would not be classified as electric vehicles.

Jeeves

301 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1906180 23-Nov-2017 09:33

frednz:

It’s interesting to see that 30,762 vehicles were registered for the month of October 2017, comprising 25,218 cars and 5,544 commercials.

There were 15,517 new vehicles registered and 15,245 used vehicles.

Out of the 30,762 vehicles registered, only 390 were classified as “electric” (1.3%).

It’s hard to imagine that we need to add another 30,000 vehicles to our roads in just one month, most of which burn petrol or diesel.

Ouch, it's going to take ages for EVs to comprise the majority of vehicles on our roads!

It took the best part of 20 years for cars to replace horses. Hell it took 5 years for LCD monitors to overtake CRT's, and that was for a comparatively cheap $500 item.

30k light vehicle registrations includes compacts, sedans, hatchbacks, roadsters, coupes, people movers, crossovers, SUVs, convertables, sports cars, muscle cars etc etc.

EV's currently make up only 2 or 3 of those categories.

There is probably 1-200 different makes and models of cars that one could chose from in the ICE range. EV's - maybe a dozen?

Even though Tesla has been around since 2008 and the leaf since 2011, I think we can all agree that it's only just been this year that EV's have become remotely comparable to ICE cars of equivalent size when it comes to purchase price and availability. Range is still a limiting factor, but in 2 - 3 years time it won't be.

Taking all the above into account, I think they are doing pretty bloody well. It's easy for the cynics to hogwash EV's because of the huge amount of ingrained infrastructure and market that the ICE category has had for OVER 100 YEARS.

I'm damn proud to be an early adopter - and in 20 years time my kids will be proud to say "yea my dad was the first guy on his street to have an EV", just like it was a badge of honour to have the first television on the street in the 60's.

jarledb

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#1906516 23-Nov-2017 15:34

I hope that the new government will actually do something proactive to get more EVs on the road. Pretty sad state of affairs as it is now.

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frednz

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#1907077 24-Nov-2017 12:25

jarledb:

I hope that the new government will actually do something proactive to get more EVs on the road. Pretty sad state of affairs as it is now.

On a positive note EV numbers are soaring worldwide:

http://evtalk.co.nz/ev-numbers-soaring-worldwide/

The above article mentions that:

At 765,000, EV sales are rapidly nearing the million mark for this year.

In the third quarter of this year 66% of EV sales were pure electric (BEV) and 34% were plug-in hybrids (PHEVS), EV-Volumes.com reports.

Growth was influenced by the Chinese market, the USA and Europe close behind.

The Toyota Prius Prime (PHEV) proved an instant top seller in Japan, hauling up that market which is also helped by the new Nissan Leaf.

So, I guess we just have to be patient in NZ, the momentum worldwide towards EVs is certainly growing.

Now, this little EV from Uniti may be just the answer for local trips:

http://evtalk.co.nz/first-electric-car-from-uniti-in-december/

It says here that, depending on the version, the range per charge varies from 150km to 300km.

"To be lightweight (450 kg) and safe, the car will be made with sustainable composite biomaterials and carbon fibers. Uniti car will have 2 electric motors delivering a total output 15 kW (40 kW peak), which allows the vehicle to reach 0 to 80 km/h in less than 3.5 seconds with a top speed of 90 km/h to 130 km/h depending on the version. The urban electric car will have a Li-Ion battery which supports induction and plug-in charge, and capable of supplying 11 to 20 kWh of energy. Depending on the version, the range per charge varies from 150 km to 300 km."

jaymz

1133 posts

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#1907086 24-Nov-2017 12:56

I have a question - not sure if it has been brought up yet or not - but at the moment a great portion of the cost per l of fuel goes to the National Land Transport Fund, which in turn pays for roading projects and safety improvements.

I know there is going to be a long time before a switch over from petrol vehicles to fully electric, but i wonder how will the government tax for the fund if everyone jumped into an electric car?

I guess at the moment, people who are driving fully electric are essentially getting a "free ride" when it comes to using the roads paid for by the fuel tax?

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