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alasta
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  #3158977 13-Nov-2023 12:19
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Out of interest, when the charging facilities are occupied, is it always people who are legitimately using the chargers? Or do you often see petrol vehicles occupying the charging spaces because it happens to be an available car park?  


 
 
 

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HarmLessSolutions
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  #3158980 13-Nov-2023 12:24
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idleidolidyll:

 

Actually, that's what I said: those supporting the current outrageous charging rates have not posted one iota of data supporting the supposed installation and plant costs they are defending and your post is just another example of that: it's all pure conjecture and I wonder whether they have shares in supply companies. 

 

Perhaps they just don't give a damn about the cost of running a vehicle or about incentivising the reduction of pollution.

 

The ChargeNet charging facility in New Plymouth was done in conjunction with Powerco but I doubt there is price fixing collusion as you suggest. More the point would be that the 'joint venture' in place includes opportunity for Powerco to defray infrastructure costs in the vicinity. You only have to extrapolate on the costs of installing a 7kW AC charger including the use and abuse a Dc charger undergoes from public use to realise that ongoing maintenance and upgrading don't come cheap.

 

Maybe the infrastructure upgrade in New Plymouth's CBD required to allow the District Council to install DC charging facilities for their growing EV fleet at their HQ will allow ChargeNet to upsize their facilities there, though of course the costs involved will effectively fall on NPDC's ratepayers.





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  #3159056 13-Nov-2023 12:48
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HarmLessSolutions:
Also worth considering that in many locations the underlying grid infrastructure requires upgrading in order to cope with the high demands that DC charging facilities require.
Case in point is the New Plymouth Chargenet 50kW charger that struggles to maintain that supply rate due to inadequacies in the grid in the local CBD.

 

From my very limited observations, this seems to be a significant issue in provincial (not remote) Australia.

 

In one small town I saw a dual-bay charger connected to an ordinary suburban 11kV supply with a pot-type pole mounted transformer (30 or 40 kVA, maybe?) that might otherwise be the supply for a small farm. In a larger town, there was a four-outlet charge station connected to a pad mount 100kVA transformer.
In order to feed the cars at a respectable rate - I'm talking 50kW, not more - the charge stations each have a large battery bank that is continuously charged from the mains supply but can deliver as many 50kW streams as needed for a shortish period. This is rather energy-inefficient, but when you are constrained by the electricity infrastructure, you do what you can, I guess




trig42
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  #3159064 13-Nov-2023 13:28
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jonathan18:
trig42:

 

We took our MG4 (Excite 64) on a roadie to Napier for the weekend just gone. …

 

Talked to a guy there in a Tesla who was over from Palmy, he said Palmy was similar - not enough public charging. Hastings only has one charger also.

 

 

 

I'll admit, Napier was super busy with visitors, so that may account for the chargers being so busy, but it's not a great look. Maybe National's promise of more fast chargers can't come soon enough.

 



Glad it generally went well - charging availability aside, are you pleased with the car? Any things that particularly niggle?

...

 

Yep, I'm pleased with the car. It has a couple of (minor) niggles that I'll either get used to, or they could be ironed out in a software update.

 

One pedal driving - love it, and it works really well in the MG4. Just I have to turn it on every time I start the car. It would be great if it could stay on (I understand it won't work if the battery is too charged up - but there is a warning for that already), or at least have an easier to reach button - currently have to go to home screen, press the 'Car' button, choose the driving tab, then toggle one-pedal. It's not a huge thing, just a niggle.

 

Cruise control is the other thing - it slows too much on corners, and I think the ACC gets confused sometimes with oncoming traffic on bends. It works pretty well on motorways.

 

I'd heard the stereo was crap (I have the 4-speaker version) - it's not. For what I listen to, it's fine (mostly podcasts).


jonathan18
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  #3159072 13-Nov-2023 13:32
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alasta: Out of interest, when the charging facilities are occupied, is it always people who are legitimately using the chargers? Or do you often see petrol vehicles occupying the charging spaces because it happens to be an available car park?

 

Nah, certainly not always legit charging going on. Common problems are:

 

  • parks that are ICEd (the problem you identify), when an internal combustion car parks in an EV charging park.
  • EVs that have finished charging but have been left by their owners (even if a car wanting to charge can pull up alongside, in many cases the port is locked so the charging cable won’t be able to be removed).
  • EVs charging over an ‘acceptable’ SOC (state of charge) - this is much more of a subjective claim, but still gets some riled up. Convention is to charge to what you need to make it to the next stop, but not to go past 80% (as charging slows down as the battery gets closer to capacity). I’m happy to sometimes charge over 80% provided there’s no-one waiting to charge and I’m there in my car in case someone arrives; it can make it easier (eg being able to bypass busy chargers). 
  • Hogging of free chargers - this seems to be more of an Akld issue (given currently there are lots of free Vector chargers), eg with taxi drivers. Personally I don’t get the obsession with getting free charging - if it’s there and free it can be nice, but otherwise it’s not worth waiting ages for or whinging about (some can be very sanctimonious about this, as if free charging is a god-given right!).

HarmLessSolutions
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  #3159077 13-Nov-2023 13:41
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PolicyGuy:

 

HarmLessSolutions:
Also worth considering that in many locations the underlying grid infrastructure requires upgrading in order to cope with the high demands that DC charging facilities require.
Case in point is the New Plymouth Chargenet 50kW charger that struggles to maintain that supply rate due to inadequacies in the grid in the local CBD.

 

From my very limited observations, this seems to be a significant issue in provincial (not remote) Australia.

 

In one small town I saw a dual-bay charger connected to an ordinary suburban 11kV supply with a pot-type pole mounted transformer (30 or 40 kVA, maybe?) that might otherwise be the supply for a small farm. In a larger town, there was a four-outlet charge station connected to a pad mount 100kVA transformer.
In order to feed the cars at a respectable rate - I'm talking 50kW, not more - the charge stations each have a large battery bank that is continuously charged from the mains supply but can deliver as many 50kW streams as needed for a shortish period. This is rather energy-inefficient, but when you are constrained by the electricity infrastructure, you do what you can, I guess

 

I have a friend who managed the Hampton Downs upgrade a couple of years back and the utility scale battery 'reservoir' method was something they were looking at. Don't know if they ended up doing this.

 

So far as the NPDC situation goes a roof full of PV feeding into a utility grade battery may be a viable option I guess. That would involve accepting that Powerco have an infrastructure shortcoming and NP's mayor is an ex-Powerco guy so a few moving parts to address there.





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jonathan18
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  #3159078 13-Nov-2023 13:44
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trig42:

 

Yep, I'm pleased with the car. It has a couple of (minor) niggles that I'll either get used to, or they could be ironed out in a software update.

 

One pedal driving - love it, and it works really well in the MG4. Just I have to turn it on every time I start the car. It would be great if it could stay on (I understand it won't work if the battery is too charged up - but there is a warning for that already), or at least have an easier to reach button - currently have to go to home screen, press the 'Car' button, choose the driving tab, then toggle one-pedal. It's not a huge thing, just a niggle.

 

Cruise control is the other thing - it slows too much on corners, and I think the ACC gets confused sometimes with oncoming traffic on bends. It works pretty well on motorways.

 

I'd heard the stereo was crap (I have the 4-speaker version) - it's not. For what I listen to, it's fine (mostly podcasts).

 

 

I agree with you on the first two. OPD (which I also love) also kicks in far too low SOC; on the Excite it’s about 83%. I get why it can’t work at 100%, but to not work until nearly a fifth of the battery is used is just crazy. Also that OPD doesn’t work when in reverse, even if enabled. And that it’ll turn off if you cycle through the driving modes. It’s inconsistencies like this that will give users a bad idea of what OPD driving is like (and make them less likely to use it - especially given the hassle of having to turn it on each and every time). They should look to how Tesla have implemented this.

 

But totally can’t agree with you on the stereo; perhaps I’m spoilt as the stereo in the Model Y is excellent, but the stereo in the Excite just sucks. Slightly less awful after tweaking settings, but it can’t get rid of that empty hollow sound. Yeah, spoken word’s ok, but music nearly always sounds just bad. 




SaltyNZ
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  #3159079 13-Nov-2023 13:48
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jonathan18:

 

  • Hogging of free chargers - this seems to be more of an Akld issue (given currently there are lots of free Vector chargers), eg with taxi drivers. Personally I don’t get the obsession with getting free charging - if it’s there and free it can be nice, but otherwise it’s not worth waiting ages for or whinging about (some can be very sanctimonious about this, as if free charging is a god-given right!).

 

 

 

I don't even consider using the Vector chargers anymore. They're always 5-6 cars deep in a queue. Surely even a taxi driver loses more money sitting idle for 2 hours waiting for the free charger vs. just paying to charge and getting back to work again...

 

 

 

 

 

When Ah wurr yoong / hanging an onion on my belt etc.





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jonathan18
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  #3159085 13-Nov-2023 14:07
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SaltyNZ: I don't even consider using the Vector chargers anymore. They're always 5-6 cars deep in a queue. Surely even a taxi driver loses more money sitting idle for 2 hours waiting for the free charger vs. just paying to charge and getting back to work again...


When do charges come in for these Vector chargers? (Am I right in remembering they’ve been sold to another company?) Can’t come soon enough as it really does distort the market (man, I sound like some capitalist swine that my younger self would have hated!)

alasta
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  #3159087 13-Nov-2023 14:18
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jonathan18:

 

Nah, certainly not always legit charging going on. Common problems are:

 

  • parks that are ICEd (the problem you identify), when an internal combustion car parks in an EV charging park.
  • EVs that have finished charging but have been left by their owners (even if a car wanting to charge can pull up alongside, in many cases the port is locked so the charging cable won’t be able to be removed).
  • EVs charging over an ‘acceptable’ SOC (state of charge) - this is much more of a subjective claim, but still gets some riled up. Convention is to charge to what you need to make it to the next stop, but not to go past 80% (as charging slows down as the battery gets closer to capacity). I’m happy to sometimes charge over 80% provided there’s no-one waiting to charge and I’m there in my car in case someone arrives; it can make it easier (eg being able to bypass busy chargers). 

 

Thanks. I am involved in the governance of a large townhouse complex. At some stage it would be good to have a communal charger but I can't see it working unless there is some element of time-based charging and a physical obstruction (e.g. collapsing bollard) to keep the space clear when the meter is not running. It could get complicated and expensive. 

 

Unfortunately we already have problems with nuisance vehicles being left in all sorts of strange places, so we need to proceed with caution. 


SaltyNZ
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  #3159091 13-Nov-2023 14:27
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jonathan18: 

When do charges come in for these Vector chargers? (Am I right in remembering they’ve been sold to another company?) Can’t come soon enough as it really does distort the market (man, I sound like some capitalist swine that my younger self would have hated!)

 

 

 

AFAIK they haven't managed to sell them yet. Probably a bit of a difficult proposition: they're surrounded by ChargeNet locations (and an increasing number of Z and BP ones too), so you'd be buying a bunch of equipment nearing its support EOL but have to settle for a fairly small share of the available market.





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jarledb
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  #3159100 13-Nov-2023 14:50
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idleidolidyll:

 

Perhaps they just don't give a damn about the cost of running a vehicle or about incentivising the reduction of pollution.

 

 

As an aside: If you do a lot of fast charging you should look at the Genesis EV plan that allow you to charge at your home rate when you are charging at ChargeNet chargers.





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jonathan18
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  #3159103 13-Nov-2023 14:58
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SaltyNZ: 

AFAIK they haven't managed to sell them yet. Probably a bit of a difficult proposition: they're surrounded by ChargeNet locations (and an increasing number of Z and BP ones too), so you'd be buying a bunch of equipment nearing its support EOL but have to settle for a fairly small share of the available market.

 

Man, I hadn’t realised it’s nearly a year since I read that Vector was looking to sell them - this Newsroom article is from 30 Nov 22; https://www.newsroom.co.nz/sustainable-future/aucklands-free-ev-chargers-wont-be-free-much-longer


richms
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  #3159106 13-Nov-2023 15:03
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jarledb:

 

idleidolidyll:

 

Perhaps they just don't give a damn about the cost of running a vehicle or about incentivising the reduction of pollution.

 

 

As an aside: If you do a lot of fast charging you should look at the Genesis EV plan that allow you to charge at your home rate when you are charging at ChargeNet chargers.

 

 

Remember to allow for the terrible daytime rate on those plans and work out if you would actually save on the odd occasion you need a charge from a public charger. I would be $40 a month up with their pricing over what I have now so that would mean I would have to do several public charges a month to offset that, and I would rather not.

 

Perhaps if you have a second dwelling that you can put on the bad rates it might be worth it?





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jarledb
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  #3159116 13-Nov-2023 15:44
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richms:

 

Remember to allow for the terrible daytime rate on those plans and work out if you would actually save on the odd occasion you need a charge from a public charger. I would be $40 a month up with their pricing over what I have now so that would mean I would have to do several public charges a month to offset that, and I would rather not.

 

Perhaps if you have a second dwelling that you can put on the bad rates it might be worth it?

 

 

Absolutely, someone using fast chargers a lot would have to do that math for themselves.

 

For me I have had the BEV for more than a year, and only really once had to do fast charging. So I have gone with a plan that allows me to charge at a low rate at night at home, rather than focusing on charging rates on fast chargers.

 

BTW: People complain about fast charging rates in NZ: In Norway a lot of places charge a lot more at the fast chargers than here. I was paying more than $1 NZD per kwh when doing fast charging in Norway when I was there in June and July.

 

Tesla did have a better rate, but didn't have any fast chargers near to where I needed them most of the time, so wasn't very helpful.





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