EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#1938830 15-Jan-2018 00:53

WyleECoyoteNZ:

It really is disappointing to see such narrow minded thinking, it really is.

Yes, the costs are high at the moment for buying hydrogen by the kg, as it takes a lot to get it to that end user product. But why not use nuclear power instead of natural gas or gasoline in the production of hydrogen?

....

Hopefully R&D into the production of hydrogen will continue, making it easier and cheaper to produce, and if that means a nuclear powered future, then so be it. Either way (hydrogen or battery) there are still downsides (nuclear waste v disposing millions of batteries), there is no getting from that.

Production of hydrogen is already mature (it's a roughly US$100B industry). Hydrogen is a common industrial gas, you can phone up BOC and have bottles delivered if you like.

It is unlikely that Hydrogen cars will spur a break through in hydrogen production (A $100B industry will already be able to fund decent R&D).

Nucular power to modern safety standards is very expensive, hydrogen production by electrolysis is inefficient.

The other elephant in the room with hydrogen is difficulty to transport. Either you cool to cryogenic temperatures, or you compress to crazy high pressures. Both methods take a lot of energy and require expensive specialized tanks. Even then you can't fit many car's worth of fuel in a truck.

This also poses issue with storing the gas on board a vehicle. Toyota Mirai has two tanks that have a combined volume of 122.4L. These tanks are cylindrical and have a 25mm thick carbon fiber wall, so they are not convenient to package into a car. They are filled to 70MPa (700Bar). (For comparison you tires have under 0.3MPa of pressure in them, and a scuba tank has around 20MPa). Even with all the above, the car still has a range of less than the biggest battery Tesla, and cannot be charged at home.

Note that many hydrogen dispenser in California are only filling tanks half way (to 35MPa), making the picture much worse.

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wellygary

8218 posts

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#1938948 15-Jan-2018 10:49

Linuxluver:They also want to install their own charging infrastructure.

Sort of,

Its an RFI and I suspect they will conclude that the cheapest and easiest way to do it is via a subscription to charge net + a few office based chargers,

I think their biggest issues will be getting lease companies to start stocking EVs

freitasm

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#1941420 17-Jan-2018 11:27

Just received:

$3.74 million for new electric vehicles

More electric vehicles will be hitting New Zealand’s highways, bus lanes and streets with funding announced by Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods today.

Dr Woods announced $3.74 million for 20 projects under the third round of the Low Emission Vehicles Contestable Fund, administered by the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA).

The projects will see Government funding matched or bettered by businesses.

“These exciting projects include a 58 tonne fully electric truck to be used by Coda in Hamilton to shuttle Fonterra’s dairy goods to the railway,” Dr Woods said.

“Projects like this are vital to show others in the heavy logistics and transport industry that electric trucks are not only viable but have very low running costs.”

Dr Woods said $1.7m of the funding would help fill gaps in the country’s charging infrastructure. Funding was also going towards tourism opportunities such as electric campervans.

“The projects we are funding show there’s an EV for almost every job or use in New Zealand, be it delivering fruit and veg or taking a holiday.”

Also announced was a Motor Industry Training Organisation project to develop a qualifications framework for mechanics working on electric vehicles.

The fund is one of a range of initiatives in the Government’s Electric Vehicles Programme, which has a target of doubling the numbers of electric vehicles every year to reach 64,000 by the end of 2021.

The fund offers up to 50% funding towards projects. Applicants must match or exceed the amounts granted. For this round recipients are contributing $4.30m. Projects are approved conditionally until contracts are prepared and signed.

For more information about the fund visit https://www.eeca.govt.nz/funding-and-support/electric-vehicles-programme/

For general information about electric vehicles, see www.electricvehicles.govt.nz

wellygary

8218 posts

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#1941426 17-Jan-2018 11:37

I can see the merit in some of these projects, but some are simply corporate welfare,

I mean a bus company in wellington is going to be give nearly $400K for a fast charger to charge their new E-Buses,

I mean come on, how was the company planning on charging them before they got this money approved, oh that's right they had probably budgeted for it in the contract prices they submitted to the local council.... so in effect they are taking two bites on the public purse to do the same thing and I'm guessing it just washes through to the bottom line......

freitasm

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#1944723 22-Jan-2018 12:44

Just received:

Thousands of international tourists visiting NZ could be driving electric campervans within two years following a new electric vehicle (EV) trial.

The New Zealand trial will mark the first time an electric campervan has been rented to tourists in this market. During their journey, two visiting French students will travel thousands of kilometres throughout the North Island in a prototype Jucy campervan, powered only by electricity.

The tourists plan to visit around 30 destinations in the North Island over a three week period.

Jucy CEO Tim Alpe says the company aims to introduce a new category of electric vehicle to its fleet to meet growing demand from millennial tourists.

“Electric vehicles are the future of the Jucy campervan fleet and this trial is the ideal platform to test our product offering for customers,

“This market segment in particular want more environmentally sustainable travel options, at the same time this gives our tourists more choice and cheaper running costs,” says Alpe.

Paris Sorbonne University environmental law student Heloise de Bokay says tourism is becoming less sustainable which is why they wanted a more eco friendly mode of transport to explore NZ.

“Electric cars are a more sensible solution in your country as more than 80 percent of your energy comes from renewable sources - compared to only 22 percent in France,” she says.

Alpe says further expansion of the programme will need additional investment in charging infrastructure and vehicles that can travel further distances.

“Campervans are the perfect vehicle to be electrically powered as tourists tend to drive during the day and can then recharge overnight at their campground.

“One of the biggest barriers we will face in the short term is lack of infrastructure to support EV charging.

“We are working with camping grounds to introduce suitable facilities for overnight charging but there is also a need to bring in rapid chargers on the roads between main centres.

“At the same time, there are range limitations of the vehicles that need to be overcome to ensure tourists can travel long distances across the country, without the need to constantly recharge their battery.

“Our future as a sustainable tourist market will be short lived if our customer experience is impacted by the range their vehicle can travel each day,” he says.
Alpe says the company plans to introduce charging stations at their branches as well as Jucy Snooze hotels across NZ and Australia.

Dinga96

123 posts

Master Geek

#1944829 22-Jan-2018 15:50

Perhaps a better idea would be to supply electric cars for hire, then when that is working and proven, then try the campervan market. Why go to all that effort of converting electric vans to campervans .The only problem would be the hire companies insisting you recharge the car before you drop it off .You know the same hassle every time you hire a petrol car.This needs to change. The car hirer could put charging points at their drop off depots .I think this will happen sooner maybe than later.The other problem with campervans is they need charging between camp sites,so one day when your on holiday and you want to charge up your ev,be patient please, as all the tourist are charging their motor homes...

frankv

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#1945028 22-Jan-2018 21:20

Dinga96:

The only problem would be the hire companies insisting you recharge the car before you drop it off .You know the same hassle every time you hire a petrol car.This needs to change.

With the much lower cost of fuel, and the much longer refueling time, I expect that the campervan companies will allow you to return an nearly-empty EV and charge it up themselves, probably for a $5 fixed cost built into every hire.

Dinga96

123 posts

Master Geek

#1945420 23-Jan-2018 14:23

frankv:

With the much lower cost of fuel, and the much longer refueling time, I expect that the campervan companies will allow you to return an nearly-empty EV and charge it up themselves, probably for a $5 fixed cost built into every hire.

I wonder how that would work out when they had several empty e Campers returned with customers waiting to pick up.They could fast charge them easily enough if they are DC capable.The thing is though, they may shorten the life of the batteries fast charging them frequently.The slow charge will probably be better for battery life but may cause hold ups.

afe66

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#1945458 23-Jan-2018 14:51

Probably not need dc charging at base. Slow AC probably enough.

I imagine once returned they sit around until washed and cleaned inside so the could be slow charging.

Dinga96

123 posts

Master Geek

#1945476 23-Jan-2018 15:10

afe66: Probably not need dc charging at base. Slow AC probably enough.

I imagine once returned they sit around until washed and cleaned inside so the could be slow charging.

Yes in ideal situations possibly, I think the rental business is rarely like this .You can imagine the peak season many vehicles will be booked out the same day as they are dropped off.They will have no option but to fast charge .

frednz

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#1947779 28-Jan-2018 09:58

There have been several posts on Facebook recently about EV charging stations being blocked by people who have petrol vehicles etc. This can be a serious situation if a planned trip is dependent on charging up an EV at a particular station and there are no other stations within range.

One user (T Lewis), however, suggested that there should be no more posts about charge points being blocked. However, particularly for potential buyers of EVs, I think such posts are an important part of learning the environment in which EVs operate. Why try to suppress such posts and make it look like it's a breeze to float around NZ and always be able to easily charge up your EV wherever you may happen to be?

So, if you arrive at an EV charging station and it's blocked by ICE vehicles, what can you do? Could you ring the Police and ask them to get the ICE vehicles towed so you can charge up and proceed on your merry way?

RunningMan

8882 posts

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#1947799 28-Jan-2018 11:13

frednz:So, if you arrive at an EV charging station and it's blocked by ICE vehicles, what can you do? Could you ring the Police and ask them to get the ICE vehicles towed so you can charge up and proceed on your merry way?

It probably depends on where the car park is - probably the local council parking enforcement or if a shopping centre then the centre management office.

afe66

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#1947825 28-Jan-2018 12:17

In dunedin the answer is nothing...as there is uncertainty over who has power and whether they want to do anything.

Rumours of more rapid chargers suggest this might be less of an issue

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1947835 28-Jan-2018 13:28

afe66: In dunedin the answer is nothing...as there is uncertainty over who has power and whether they want to do anything.

. . . and then the council realise that their parking wardens can generate more income and they pass a bylaw setting a fine of $120 for illegally parking a fossil fuel burner in an EV charging space and the wardens start dishing out tickets to the iceholes!

PhantomNVD

2619 posts

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#1947849 28-Jan-2018 14:47

The growth of EV’s outpacing the charging infrastructure is also beginning to become a pain too...

This is Takinini at 4:30 on a Saturday (yesterday) when I brought my leaf to charge and saw another THREE lined up for the single CHaDmo cable that Vector provides (free) here.

Luckily Nana was just up the road and so we had coffee and bikkies to pass the time waiting (the queue cleared around 7 as more still came after!)

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