Less charging stalls, limited to about 65kW.

Jase2985:

 

Limitations?

 

The main one at the moment is that most new charging sites have multiple CCS2 chargers but only have a single Chademo charger, so wait times will be a thing. The second is that Chademo charges in NZ max out at 50kW, whereas CCS2 goes all the way up to 300kW. You might have a car where the NZ new version can make use of those high powered CCS2 chargers but the Japanese import will be stuck at 50kW - not pleasant when your car also has a large battery. A third future one is that Japan is moving to the next version of Chademo which is a different plug - we have no chargers that support those here in NZ.

Not a practical problem for most people. Everywhere I've visited at the edge of my 2014 leaf range near Auckland so far has had a Chargenet station with a CHAdeMo that takes me from empty to full in 30 minutes if I need it. CHAdeMo and CCS Type 2 are specified by the current government guidance (pdf) which probably explains the existing installed base around the country. Additionally, the car came with a couple of adaptors for other cases which I haven't needed to use yet.

Jase2985:

 

Obraik:

 

At the moment, people buying a Japanese import EV who are unaware of the Chademo limitations (or NACS in the case of Tesla's) are often left with a bad experience for their first EV purchase. 

 

 

Limitations?

 

According to the Chademo Wikipedia page:

The charging system is now considered outdated in the U.S, with the Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV being the only models to use it in the country.

NACS looks like the de facto standard in the US, though other competing standards exist too.

deepred:

 

Jase2985:

 

Limitations?

 

 

According to the Chademo Wikipedia page:

 

The charging system is now considered outdated in the U.S, with the Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV being the only models to use it in the country.

 

NACS looks like the de facto standard in the US, though other competing standards exist too.

 

Very North American-centric attitude in the Wikipedia page. The Americans are far from being leading innovators in many things (metric units, variant spelling) so seeing their widespread adoption of a DC connection system (NACS) promoted by a car manufacturer who is widely dismissive of V2X (which Chademo encompasses) is hardly a robust confirmation of the redundancy of Chademo.

Jase2985:

 

Limitations?

 

Short term: far fewer plugs compared to CCS2, and numbers will grow at a much slower rate. As in, new stations will have one CHAdeMO plug and multiple CCS2 plugs. Longer term: much lower maximum charging rate supported so you're always going to spend longer on the charger, too.

RunningMan:

 

Less charging stalls, limited to about 65kW.

 

Not really a limitation for most Chademo vehicles, that's a full charge in about an hour

Obraik:

 

Jase2985:

 

Limitations?

 

 

The main one at the moment is that most new charging sites have multiple CCS2 chargers but only have a single Chademo charger, so wait times will be a thing. The second is that Chademo charges in NZ max out at 50kW, whereas CCS2 goes all the way up to 300kW. You might have a car where the NZ new version can make use of those high powered CCS2 chargers but the Japanese import will be stuck at 50kW - not pleasant when your car also has a large battery. A third future one is that Japan is moving to the next version of Chademo which is a different plug - we have no chargers that support those here in NZ.

 

You need to remember most Chademo vehicles have small batteries 40kw or less, yes there are some with bigger batteries, but they are not generally used for long distance travel, most are used as town cars and charged at home. Not to say they cant/couldn't be, they are just not practice to do that, and thats speaking from recent experience.

Most dual connector chargers have 1 x CCS and 1 x Chademo where there is only one machine. Bigger sites still have 1-2 Chademo connectors, even though they may have 6-8 CCS ones. 

Chademo is going to be around in NZ for a long time, but i dont see NZ moving to the next revision of Chademo, so we are in agreeance there.

SaltyNZ:

 

Jase2985:

 

Limitations?

 

 

 

 

Short term: far fewer plugs compared to CCS2, and numbers will grow at a much slower rate. As in, new stations will have one CHAdeMO plug and multiple CCS2 plugs. Longer term: much lower maximum charging rate supported so you're always going to spend longer on the charger, too.

 

but long term thats not an issue as the vast majority of new vehicles are CCS, and as mentioned in my previous post most Chademo vehicles are town cars not cross tripping road tripping ones.

Jase2985:

 

but long term thats not an issue as the vast majority of new vehicles are CCS, and as mentioned in my previous post most Chademo vehicles are town cars not cross tripping road tripping ones.

 

That might be OK for you, an experienced EV town car driver. You are well aware of the limitations of your vehicle, and if you did choose to use it to drive the entire length of SH1 you would certainly know what you were in for. I even know a guy with a Leaf who, in the first two years he had it at least (he no longer works for 2D so I don't talk EVs with him that much anymore) had never used a fast charger even once. But - it is likely to leave a bad taste in the mouth of an excited first-time EV buyer. It's definitely the Betamax to CCS2's VHS.*

*Sorry, I can't readily come up with a comparison where the loser was actually worse than the winner, like CHAdeMO is.

gzt:

 

 Additionally, the car came with a couple of adaptors for other cases which I haven't needed to use yet.

 

What type of adapters. The CCS to Chademo shown by DalaTheGreat on his YT site was quite big, and very $$

SaltyNZ:

 

Jase2985:

 

but long term thats not an issue as the vast majority of new vehicles are CCS, and as mentioned in my previous post most Chademo vehicles are town cars not cross tripping road tripping ones.

 

 

 

 

That might be OK for you, an experienced EV town car driver. You are well aware of the limitations of your vehicle, and if you did choose to use it to drive the entire length of SH1 you would certainly know what you were in for. I even know a guy with a Leaf who, in the first two years he had it at least (he no longer works for 2D so I don't talk EVs with him that much anymore) had never used a fast charger even once. But - it is likely to leave a bad taste in the mouth of an excited first-time EV buyer. It's definitely the Betamax to CCS2's VHS.*

 

 

 

*Sorry, I can't readily come up with a comparison where the loser was actually worse than the winner, like CHAdeMO is.

 

you are talking about a small, maybe even a fraction of a % of leaf buyers, if you buy a car that has ~200km range (40kWh) or less for the 30 and 24kw ones, then if you are not realistic on how far you can go on a charge that's noones fault but yours, its not the technologies problem.

At the end of the day, Chademo is here and its not going anywhere. And back to the shipping issue, leafs are the only second hand ones not affected, so they will continue to come into the country. 

Jase2985:

 

you are talking about a small, maybe even a fraction of a % of leaf buyers, if you buy a car that has ~200km range (40kWh) or less for the 30 and 24kw ones, then if you are not realistic on how far you can go on a charge that's noones fault but yours, its not the technologies problem.

 

At the end of the day, Chademo is here and its not going anywhere. And back to the shipping issue, leafs are the only second hand ones not affected, so they will continue to come into the country. 

 

When I sold my 30kWh Leaf, I put a screenshot of LeafSpy in the TradeMe listing that clearly showed the battery was f***ed. The first call I got was from a guy who was super excited to see an EV listed for that price and it was going to be his first ever EV etc. etc. Sure, buyer beware, but it is a real thing and simply saying 'well you should know better' doesn't do the cause any favours.

Jase2985:

 

You need to remember most Chademo vehicles have small batteries 40kw or less, yes there are some with bigger batteries, but they are not generally used for long distance travel, most are used as town cars and charged at home. Not to say they cant/couldn't be, they are just not practice to do that, and thats speaking from recent experience.

 

Most dual connector chargers have 1 x CCS and 1 x Chademo where there is only one machine. Bigger sites still have 1-2 Chademo connectors, even though they may have 6-8 CCS ones. 

Chademo is going to be around in NZ for a long time, but i dont see NZ moving to the next revision of Chademo, so we are in agreeance there.

 

I'm more talking about the vehicles with larger batteries, like the newer Leaf with their 62kWh batteries or imported Tesla's and others as they now reach the age where they're viable import options. These are clearly more intended for road tripping, but that road tripping experience in them is going to be a much worse experience than if the vehicle was CCS2 because NZ hasn't prioritised the Chademo network. It's probably worse for the imported Tesla buyers because those used car dealers that import them either don't know or don't care to tell the buyers that those vehicles are not compatible with the Tesla Superchargers here.

They represent a lower proportion of the fleet, and there is also a lower proportion of chargers to reflect that. Your much worse comments is probably a little over the top. Number of vehicles per charger is likely similar for CCS, but those driving long distances in them is likely lower

Hi I have been interested in getting a second hand EV for a long time.

Have only ever had a brief test drive in an early Leaf, no other EV experience.

Interested in Leaf 40, Leaf 62, Atto 3, MG4, Kia Niro EV Light. Don't really want to spend too much on a car, and currently don't drive a lot of km. New battery tech and vehicles seem to be on the way this year.

My questions is about usable range. I have made a spreadsheet and looked at various vehicle options.

For example Leaf 40 (39 kWh usable battery) WLTP 270km, Rule of Thumb real world range 85% of WLTP according to some EV reviewers? So range 230km, If SOH 85% range 196km, home charge 100% to 10% in reserve so range 176km. If quick charging to 80% down to 10% (using only 70% of battery) range now only 137km?

By the same calcs a Niro EV with 460km WLTP, 100 SOH, would have full charge range 352km and quick charge 274km. 

Do my calcs seem realistic or too pessimistic? Ie keeping some reserve, allowance for loading, adverse conditions/cold wet weather.