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974 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2015083 13-May-2018 12:30
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kingdragonfly: If the NZ government is serious about EV's, they need to subsidize them.

They need to lead, preferably, or get out of the way.

If a private company like Vector wants to have free EV charging, then let them.

If Vector's customers don't want to subsidize EV Vector customers, then choose another provider.

The Commerce Commision saying they can't runs contrary to the government stated goal of encouraging EV's

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/02/electric-car-incentives-norway-uk-france-germany-netherlands-belgium/

 

New Zealand is only a small country with limited resources and the Government seems to believe that the current number of people converting to EVs each year is more than satisfactory to meet their targets. It's just as well the Government has this viewpoint because we are spending money at such a fast rate on other projects that there isn't much left for low priority things such as subsidising EVs so the rich pay less.

 

Remember also that NZ doesn't have the pollution problems of some other major countries and that our emissions are less than one-fifth of one percent of global emissions, so a few more EVs on the roads doesn't make a perceptible difference to the global emissions problem and we all have to be patient and wait for EVs to come down in price.

 

Which raises the point that new EVs are so ridiculously expensive that car manufacturers love Government subsidies on new EVs because it allows them to continue to charge huge amounts for electric vehicles that will ultimately sell for half the price they are now.

 

 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2015096 13-May-2018 12:52
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I am about to place an order this week for a Toyota Prius Prime PHEV.  Is there anyone on the forum that currently owns one or has some knowledgeable comments about them.  It is a plug-in and they have a range of around 60kms on electric and a 1.8 liter petrol engine (great for range anxiety!) with lots of smarts.  


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2015173 13-May-2018 15:16
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Thinks frednz for your respectful response.

I'm not an EV expert. I don't even own an EV, though I wish I did. There are many who read this forum who know much more about EV's than I do.

We're not net exporters of oil. Frankly the list of countries that are net exporters are mostly places I wouldn't want to live

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_oil_exports

We are blessed with hydro, wind, and geo-thermal. I see it as a win-win to get off any non-renewable, even if it just protects us from some geopolitical instability.

Again I'll leave others to bring better points up regarding EV's benefits.

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  Reply # 2015184 13-May-2018 15:29
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shk292:

kingdragonfly: 

If Vector's customers don't want to subsidize EV Vector customers, then choose another provider.


Is that even possible?  How do you choose a line company?  I thought they were a virtual monopoly, at least in geographic areas



Vector are a monopoly. As they own all of the distribution power lines in Auckland. If you don't want to pay anything to Vector, you have to go off grid for your power. And low income people are unlikely to be able to afford to go off grid for power.

And considering that the government is handing out extra money over winter to help low income people pay their power bills. So it is a good thing that the government is making sure that the money they are spending is actually going to help. Instead of being clawed back via higher than necessary power charges.

Paid EV charging will also get rid of the cheapskates who live 5 minutes away, and who are only using the charger because it is free. So those who have to use that charger, can do so quickly. Instead of having to wait.

I have never had to wait longer than 5 minutes to use a petrol pump. As the oil companies know that people who have to wait represent lost business. So more petrol pumps get added, or new petrol stations are opened. But since Vector don't earn any revenue from EV charging. They don't have any incentive to keep wait times low. And they are also restricting the rollout of competing charging networks.





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  Reply # 2015207 13-May-2018 15:53
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kingdragonfly: Thinks frednz for your respectful response.

I'm not an EV expert. I don't even own an EV, though I wish I did. There are many who read this forum who know much more about EV's than I do.

We're not net exporters of oil. Frankly the list of countries that are net exporters are mostly places I wouldn't want to live

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_oil_exports

We are blessed with hydro, wind, and geo-thermal. I see it as a win-win to get off any non-renewable, even if it just protects us from some geopolitical instability.

Again I'll leave others to bring better points up regarding EV's benefits.


Another problem with subsidies. Is there will be a group of people who would like to buy an EV. But no suitable EV for their use case exists. Utes and Light trucks being the best examples. Extra subsidies won't entice those people to switch. It is simply a waiting game until the car companies release more EV models.

Same as how there are lots of people on GZ who use xDSL for their internet. But who haven't switched to UFB because UFB is not available yet. Making the monthly fees for UFB cheaper wouldn't get any of those people switching to UFB.

Myself - I'm waiting for a suitable EV van to be released. (same size as a Toyota Hiace would be ideal) with good range. And I have been wanting to see the electricity industry reformed for ages. To reduce carbon emissions (as electricity is more expensive than fossil fuels for lots of people). And of course cheaper power. Which would be an indirect subsidy for EVs, via cheaper home charging.





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  Reply # 2015209 13-May-2018 15:57
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Juicytree:

 

I am about to place an order this week for a Toyota Prius Prime PHEV.  Is there anyone on the forum that currently owns one or has some knowledgeable comments about them.  It is a plug-in and they have a range of around 60kms on electric and a 1.8 liter petrol engine (great for range anxiety!) with lots of smarts.  

 

 

 

 

While not a great fan of Facebook, there is a reasonably useful group at NZEV or similar where you are more likely to get someone with a hybrid interest.

 

Also get postings from people with power involved in the scene. ie Chap who owns chargenet and people involved in charger unit rollouts.

 

 

 

A.

 

 


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  Reply # 2015219 13-May-2018 16:05
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The free chargers are a two headed sword.

 

Often they were introduced early to test the market but now there is increasing demand for them, some companies dont increase the number of free chargers or introduce fees to use them.

 

Essentially this kills the market for third parties to install more chargers. 

 

Companies that install and charge for rapid chargers wont waste money installing them.

 

ie Dunedin has had a free charger for 2-3 years in a terrible location but there are estimated to be more than 250 EV now in dunedin but still only one RC.

 

Chargenet have spoken about plans for installing three of their chargers but wont do until the free charger, no longer is free.

 

(at $80k each, you can see their point)

 

 

 

(The warehouse has a AC charger but most of the EV are leafs which a re limited to 3.3kwH so charge very slowly - unlike the ZOe which can drink 22kw+ 3 phase)


gzt

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  Reply # 2015265 13-May-2018 17:38
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Juicytree:

I am about to place an order this week for a Toyota Prius Prime PHEV.  Is there anyone on the forum that currently owns one or has some knowledgeable comments about them.  It is a plug-in and they have a range of around 60kms on electric and a 1.8 liter petrol engine (great for range anxiety!) with lots of smarts.  


Creating a new topic for that question might be the best approach. It's kind of off topic in this one, and this is a very slow topic. Personally I catch up with it once a month or so.

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  Reply # 2015501 14-May-2018 09:03
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Juicytree:

 

I am about to place an order this week for a Toyota Prius Prime PHEV.  Is there anyone on the forum that currently owns one or has some knowledgeable comments about them.  It is a plug-in and they have a range of around 60kms on electric and a 1.8 liter petrol engine (great for range anxiety!) with lots of smarts.  

 

 

Interesting car and about time Toyota NZ started to sell PHEVs  but the price is pretty high  compared to a top line ICEV say RAV4.  





Regards,

Old3eyes


98 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 2015518 14-May-2018 09:17
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I agree the price is up there but I am impressed with the smarts in the car.  For my part I live just over 30 kms from our main service town where we frequently travel to so we can mostly do a return trip on battery but still have a conventional petrol power for more distant running.  Until there is either faster charging for EVs or better range, I believe this car is a good interim solution.  We live in a small rural community and I don't believe a pure EV is yet appropriate for our personal circumstances, much as I would like to go all EV.  I've been following https://priuschat.com/ which gives a USA perspective on the Prius Prime. 


3442 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 2015523 14-May-2018 09:24
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Juicytree:

 

I am about to place an order this week for a Toyota Prius Prime PHEV.  Is there anyone on the forum that currently owns one or has some knowledgeable comments about them.  It is a plug-in and they have a range of around 60kms on electric and a 1.8 liter petrol engine (great for range anxiety!) with lots of smarts.  

 

 

I think 60km from a 8.8kwh battery pack is a stretch, I would ask under what set of conditions that is....

 

 

 

The US version ( which has the same battery pack) claims range of 40Km

 

"With just 25 miles (40km) of pure-electric range from its 8.8kWh battery pack before the 1.8L gas engine interjects, "

 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/review-toyotas-new-prius-prime-needs-more-battery/

 

"We averaged 24.6 miles of pure electric range, where the EPA's official estimate is 25 miles; pretty much a wash"


98 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 2015618 14-May-2018 11:07
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I acknowledge and agree that the 63 kms is a stretch.  We had a new demonstration car overnight.  Leaving home with a full battery upon returning the car we traveled a flat mostly open road for 36km and had around 25% of the battery remaining after using all electric for the journey.


102 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 2015689 14-May-2018 12:57
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Juicytree:

 

I acknowledge and agree that the 63 kms is a stretch.  We had a new demonstration car overnight.  Leaving home with a full battery upon returning the car we traveled a flat mostly open road for 36km and had around 25% of the battery remaining after using all electric for the journey.

 

 

 

 

If you are anxious about range and you're spending $50k you should look into the BMW i3's. The new ones do 200kms from a charge (either plug in at home or use rapid chargers) and they have a Range Extender option that uses 7L petrol to give you an extra 100kms in case you're doing a longer trip.

 

You can pick up 2017 models fully specced with less than 1000kms for $62-$65k on TradeMe or via the usual outlets.

 

If you're going to go PHEV might want to look at the Outlander.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2015743 14-May-2018 13:57
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premiumtouring:

 

Juicytree:

 

I acknowledge and agree that the 63 kms is a stretch.  We had a new demonstration car overnight.  Leaving home with a full battery upon returning the car we traveled a flat mostly open road for 36km and had around 25% of the battery remaining after using all electric for the journey.

 

 

 

 

If you are anxious about range and you're spending $50k you should look into the BMW i3's. The new ones do 200kms from a charge (either plug in at home or use rapid chargers) and they have a Range Extender option that uses 7L petrol to give you an extra 100kms in case you're doing a longer trip.

 

You can pick up 2017 models fully specced with less than 1000kms for $62-$65k on TradeMe or via the usual outlets.

 

If you're going to go PHEV might want to look at the Outlander.

 

 

There is a Geekzone thread dedicated to the BMW i3 that may be useful for anyone contemplating buying this EV.

 

It's a great choice and is a small EV with a length of only about 4 metres.

 

My only caution is to consider the situation if an i3 should need body repairs.

 

This Auckland-based auto repair company says that it's New Zealand’s only accredited BMW carbon fibre body shop, and that they are also an accredited BMW Group body shop. They say they are carbon fibre BMW repair specialists, so although that's good news, it's not so good if you live outside the Auckland area. Also, some postings in this forum explain why it doesn't pay to crash your i3.

 

 


974 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2015943 14-May-2018 17:29
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Further to my reply above about possible difficulties in getting your BMW i3 repaired, I found this article on EV Talk:

 

http://evtalk.co.nz/higher-standards-for-ev-and-other-vehicle-repairs/#more-36781

 

This article is well worth reading and mentions this:

 

Pritchard says EVs bring their own set of challenges when damaged.

 

“Like all alkali metals, lithium is highly reactive and flammable and the risk associated with lithium-ion batteries found in EVs adds a high level of complexity to the repair process, including potential electrocution of the repairer.”

 

Pritchard says the elevated risk of fire also prevents the vehicle from entering a spray booth, which means the panel-beater must introduce processes specific to that type of vehicle to complete the repair.

 

So not only can repairers be electrocuted, but they should also not put EVs in a spray booth.

 

I hope that insurance companies don't take articles like this too seriously, premiums are high enough as it is!

 

 


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