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  Reply # 2015946 14-May-2018 17:41
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Otago polytechnic had started ev mechanic repair classes.

I'm going to do the first introduction day course at end may out of curiosity.

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  Reply # 2016055 14-May-2018 21:37
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Aredwood:
kingdragonfly: Thinks frednz for your respectful response.

I'm not an EV expert. I don't even own an EV, though I wish I did. There are many who read this forum who know much more about EV's than I do.

We're not net exporters of oil. Frankly the list of countries that are net exporters are mostly places I wouldn't want to live

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_oil_exports

We are blessed with hydro, wind, and geo-thermal. I see it as a win-win to get off any non-renewable, even if it just protects us from some geopolitical instability.

Again I'll leave others to bring better points up regarding EV's benefits.


Another problem with subsidies. Is there will be a group of people who would like to buy an EV. But no suitable EV for their use case exists. Utes and Light trucks being the best examples. Extra subsidies won't entice those people to switch. It is simply a waiting game until the car companies release more EV models.

Same as how there are lots of people on GZ who use xDSL for their internet. But who haven't switched to UFB because UFB is not available yet. Making the monthly fees for UFB cheaper wouldn't get any of those people switching to UFB.

Myself - I'm waiting for a suitable EV van to be released. (same size as a Toyota Hiace would be ideal) with good range. And I have been wanting to see the electricity industry reformed for ages. To reduce carbon emissions (as electricity is more expensive than fossil fuels for lots of people). And of course cheaper power. Which would be an indirect subsidy for EVs, via cheaper home charging.

 

 

 

Nissan has a van - but if you were long haul then the range might be a bit low. They advertise it as a city van.

 

https://www.autotrader.co.nz/used-cars-for-sale/nissan-e____nv200/fueltype-electric

 

The previous model had a bigger space from memory.

 

 





nunz

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2016092 15-May-2018 00:28
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nunz:

 


Nissan has a van - but if you were long haul then the range might be a bit low. They advertise it as a city van.


https://www.autotrader.co.nz/used-cars-for-sale/nissan-e____nv200/fueltype-electric


The previous model had a bigger space from memory.


 



Have already considered that. Unfortunately it is a little too small. Has a poor crash safety rating compared to other vans available. And of course, not enough range.





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  Reply # 2016095 15-May-2018 00:48
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frednz:

Further to my reply above about possible difficulties in getting your BMW i3 repaired, I found this article on EV Talk:


http://evtalk.co.nz/higher-standards-for-ev-and-other-vehicle-repairs/#more-36781


This article is well worth reading and mentions this:


Pritchard says EVs bring their own set of challenges when damaged.


“Like all alkali metals, lithium is highly reactive and flammable and the risk associated with lithium-ion batteries found in EVs adds a high level of complexity to the repair process, including potential electrocution of the repairer.”


Pritchard says the elevated risk of fire also prevents the vehicle from entering a spray booth, which means the panel-beater must introduce processes specific to that type of vehicle to complete the repair.


So not only can repairers be electrocuted, but they should also not put EVs in a spray booth.


I hope that insurance companies don't take articles like this too seriously, premiums are high enough as it is!


 



A whole load of FUD when compared to the hazards from petrol cars. As petrol is a flammable liquid that produces lots of flammable vapours at room temperature. Car engine bays have petrol under high pressure, parts which get hot enough to ignite petrol, high voltage ignition systems (which are actually designed to ignite petrol vapours), a battery that is capable of easily outputting over 1000A in a short circuit.

And some ICE cars have had to be recalled, due to them spontaneously catching on fire. Do workshops currently have procedures to identify such models and exclude them?

And house insurance policies typically contain restrictions on the amount of flammable liquids allowed to be stored inside. You might be breaching your policy terms if you park your car in your garage while it has a full tank of petrol.





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  Reply # 2016106 15-May-2018 06:29
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Aredwood: A whole load of FUD when compared to the hazards from petrol cars. As petrol is a flammable liquid that produces lots of flammable vapours at room temperature. Car engine bays have petrol under high pressure, parts which get hot enough to ignite petrol, high voltage ignition systems (which are actually designed to ignite petrol vapours), a battery that is capable of easily outputting over 1000A in a short circuit.

And some ICE cars have had to be recalled, due to them spontaneously catching on fire. Do workshops currently have procedures to identify such models and exclude them?

And house insurance policies typically contain restrictions on the amount of flammable liquids allowed to be stored inside. You might be breaching your policy terms if you park your car in your garage while it has a full tank of petrol.

 

Can you point in the direction of a case of a house fire where the cause was a) a car catching fire with petrol in the tank and b) a claim getting knocked back by an insurer just because it had a full tank?


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  Reply # 2016135 15-May-2018 09:15
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Juicytree:

 

I am about to place an order this week for a Toyota Prius Prime PHEV.  Is there anyone on the forum that currently owns one or has some knowledgeable comments about them.  It is a plug-in and they have a range of around 60kms on electric and a 1.8 liter petrol engine (great for range anxiety!) with lots of smarts.  

 

 

I spend a lot of time as a passenger in Prius taxis and keep an eye on the stats panel.  The average fuel consumption is usually sitting around 7L per 100km.  The taxi I took last night was showing 7.7L/100km. 

 

Around 2010 I worked somewhere with a new Prius in the company car fleet and it used to use about 6.5L/100km for mix of urban and rural driving.  I'm guessing I would have driven it for a couple of thousand km.

 

One comment I would make about the Prius is the ride and handling was horrid (even when it was new).  I've always thought the suspension under spec for the weight.  The back seats feel a bit thin on padding, which doesn't help.





Mike

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  Reply # 2016245 15-May-2018 12:11
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Like a lot of things, it depends upon ones personal circumstances.  We do a lot of running of around 70 ks from home to home on the flat with little stopping and starting.  Based upon that, I figure our liters per 100 km will be a little over half of what a conventional 1.8 L car would do.  I still acknowledge that I'm unlikely to have any financial benefit from the fuel savings but I like the EV aspect and being an 'early adopter' - that's the price one pays I suppose.


gzt

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  Reply # 2016264 15-May-2018 12:36
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I regularly drive a Prius 1.5 2nd gen. I calculated fuel consumption from the pump for a long time. Gave up because no matter how or where I drove the car it was always 4.4l per 100km and exact same in practice as the dash readout.

The one exception to that was an experiment with B mode. Aka for this model - engine braking mode - instead of returning the braking energy to the battery in most cases. This is better for cornering and traffic manouvers. That one got me 6-7l per 100km same as a normal car.

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  Reply # 2016995 16-May-2018 16:49
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Aredwood:
frednz:

 

Further to my reply above about possible difficulties in getting your BMW i3 repaired, I found this article on EV Talk:

 

http://evtalk.co.nz/higher-standards-for-ev-and-other-vehicle-repairs/#more-36781

 

This article is well worth reading and mentions this:

 

Pritchard says EVs bring their own set of challenges when damaged.

 

“Like all alkali metals, lithium is highly reactive and flammable and the risk associated with lithium-ion batteries found in EVs adds a high level of complexity to the repair process, including potential electrocution of the repairer.”

 

Pritchard says the elevated risk of fire also prevents the vehicle from entering a spray booth, which means the panel-beater must introduce processes specific to that type of vehicle to complete the repair.

 

So not only can repairers be electrocuted, but they should also not put EVs in a spray booth.

 

I hope that insurance companies don't take articles like this too seriously, premiums are high enough as it is!

 



A whole load of FUD when compared to the hazards from petrol cars. As petrol is a flammable liquid that produces lots of flammable vapours at room temperature. Car engine bays have petrol under high pressure, parts which get hot enough to ignite petrol, high voltage ignition systems (which are actually designed to ignite petrol vapours), a battery that is capable of easily outputting over 1000A in a short circuit.

And some ICE cars have had to be recalled, due to them spontaneously catching on fire. Do workshops currently have procedures to identify such models and exclude them?

And house insurance policies typically contain restrictions on the amount of flammable liquids allowed to be stored inside. You might be breaching your policy terms if you park your car in your garage while it has a full tank of petrol.

 

The higher repair standards referred to in my post have been set by the Collision Repair Association:

 

https://www.collisionrepair.co.nz/

 

The EV talk article explained that:

 

New standards have been introduced by New Zealand’s largest body of panel-beaters to cope with increasing numbers of electric vehicles (EVs), hybrids and others equipped with advanced safety technology.

 

The industry is moving to stay ahead of the rapid evolution in car manufacturing which is increasing the complexity of vehicle repairs, Collision Repair Association (CRA) spokesman Neil Pritchard says.

 

I think this is an important and very responsible course of action and will give prospective EV buyers more confidence that repairers are aware of the possible hazards of repairing EVs in particular.

 

But, in the case of the BMW i3 EV, for example, if it needs body repairs for its carbon fibre body, these should only be attempted by repairers that are specifically approved by BMW and which have all the specialist gear and parts to complete the repairs.


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  Reply # 2017602 17-May-2018 12:39
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Did Tesla have a embargo on Model 3 reviews previously?

 

I say this, as in the last day, 2 major publication have posted video reviews on the Model 3. Links below for those interested. 

 

Autocar UK review with Matt Prior (Just under 10 minutes)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO3L0FHj5Us

 

Top Gear Uk review (just over 17 minutes)

 

https://www.topgear.com/videos/video-tesla-model-3s-full-new-york-test

 

 

 

 




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  Reply # 2017658 17-May-2018 14:36
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Aredwood: 


Another problem with subsidies. Is there will be a group of people who would like to buy an EV. But no suitable EV for their use case exists. Utes and Light trucks being the best examples. Extra subsidies won't entice those people to switch. It is simply a waiting game until the car companies release more EV models.

Same as how there are lots of people on GZ who use xDSL for their internet. But who haven't switched to UFB because UFB is not available yet. Making the monthly fees for UFB cheaper wouldn't get any of those people switching to UFB.

Myself - I'm waiting for a suitable EV van to be released. (same size as a Toyota Hiace would be ideal) with good range. And I have been wanting to see the electricity industry reformed for ages. To reduce carbon emissions (as electricity is more expensive than fossil fuels for lots of people). And of course cheaper power. Which would be an indirect subsidy for EVs, via cheaper home charging.


This is a chicken and egg issue. 

We're a small market with no local incentives or sale regulations....so car makers have no incentive to sell EVs here. in California there are well over 50 models available from across every major car maker. That's because they pay penalties if they fail to see a certain percentage of EVs of their total sales. Plus buyers get incentives at both state and federal levels. Flip the Fleet....and do it fast.  

If we introduced a similar regime, plus purchase incentives of some sort.....then we'd see all kinds of vehicles entering our market. Certainly more than the 3 or 4 pure EVs we see today (BMW, Hyundai, Renault, LDV (big van)and Tesla). 

This is the same old problem: Today is useless as a guide tomorrow. You have to change things to change tomorrow. Some people have zero ability to extrapolate. I found this 30 years ago when trying to educate people about MMP. Many are totally unable to apply new rules / incentives to human behaviour.....even when you provide clear, unambiguous existing examples of exactly that. 

 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


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  Reply # 2017767 17-May-2018 16:03
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GV27: Can you point in the direction of a case of a house fire where the cause was a) a car catching fire with petrol in the tank and b) a claim getting knocked back by an insurer just because it had a full tank?



There are many case of people accidently dying of carbon monoxide poisoning, and it's getting worse.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/103901888/the-hidden-danger-in-your-cars-proximity-key

The hidden danger in your [ICE] car's 'proximity' key
DAMIEN O'CARROLL

The remote proximity key - commonly known as "keyless entry" - is an increasingly common feature of new cars, with consumer demand for the convenience it offers driving adoption of the technology across model ranges.

Proximity technology allows you to open your car and start it without actually touching the keyfob - as long as it's within range of the vehicle (in your bag or pocket, for example).

Once solely the domain of high-end luxury cars, proximity keys have filtered down into more mainstream cars in recent years.

But is the convenience they offer also a potential death trap? A report from the New York Times has found that the technology could be partially responsible for dozens of deaths across the US.

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  Reply # 2017856 17-May-2018 19:05
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This would be nice to do in a New Zealand mall, perhaps a large one in Auckland, in particular with the Laissez-faire attitude of our government around EV's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire

The Electric Vehicle Experience Centre | Fully Charged


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  Reply # 2017977 17-May-2018 21:20
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Linuxluver:

 

This is a chicken and egg issue. 

We're a small market with no local incentives or sale regulations....so car makers have no incentive to sell EVs here. in California there are well over 50 models available from across every major car maker. That's because they pay penalties if they fail to see a certain percentage of EVs of their total sales. Plus buyers get incentives at both state and federal levels. Flip the Fleet....and do it fast.  

If we introduced a similar regime, plus purchase incentives of some sort.....then we'd see all kinds of vehicles entering our market. Certainly more than the 3 or 4 pure EVs we see today (BMW, Hyundai, Renault, LDV (big van)and Tesla). 

This is the same old problem: Today is useless as a guide tomorrow. You have to change things to change tomorrow. Some people have zero ability to extrapolate. I found this 30 years ago when trying to educate people about MMP. Many are totally unable to apply new rules / incentives to human behaviour.....even when you provide clear, unambiguous existing examples of exactly that. 

 

 

https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/climatechange/electric-vehicles/

 

The above site explains there is a target of 64,000 EVs to be registered in NZ by the end of 2021. At the current rate of uptake of EVs, do you think this target will in fact be reached by the end of 2021? If so, is there really a need for more incentives than are referred to in the above web site?

 

Or is the target of 64,000 vehicles by the end of 2021 too small - if so, what is a more realistic target?

 

And should plug-in hybrids be included as part of the 64,000 target, after all they can travel at least 600 kms on a full tank of petrol?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2018089 18-May-2018 00:26
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Linuxluver:

This is a chicken and egg issue. 

We're a small market with no local incentives or sale regulations....so car makers have no incentive to sell EVs here. in California there are well over 50 models available from across every major car maker. That's because they pay penalties if they fail to see a certain percentage of EVs of their total sales. Plus buyers get incentives at both state and federal levels. Flip the Fleet....and do it fast.  

If we introduced a similar regime, plus purchase incentives of some sort.....then we'd see all kinds of vehicles entering our market. Certainly more than the 3 or 4 pure EVs we see today (BMW, Hyundai, Renault, LDV (big van)and Tesla). 

This is the same old problem: Today is useless as a guide tomorrow. You have to change things to change tomorrow. Some people have zero ability to extrapolate. I found this 30 years ago when trying to educate people about MMP. Many are totally unable to apply new rules / incentives to human behaviour.....even when you provide clear, unambiguous existing examples of exactly that. 

 



Are there actually any other RHD pure EVs available overseas but not sold in NZ? As no car company is going to design an EV from scratch, solely for sale in NZ.

USA and California can put extra restrictions as they are too big a market for the car companies to ignore. NZ on the other hand wouldn't be missed if the car companies simply decided to stop selling new cars here.

Any restrictions on what people can buy just pushes up the price of secondhand cars. And means older polluting cars stay on the road for longer.





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