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tripper1000
1247 posts

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  #2021177 23-May-2018 14:50
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Yeah, it's my petrol car (a 2Litre Altezza) calculating how much money I have actually saved. 

 

You'd probably think my Mrs 1.6L Kia Rio would be Comparable to the Leaf on paper, but once you drive both, the Leaf is more car than the Kia. Incidentally the Altezza isn't actually any bigger (or heavier) than a Leaf - those Leaf's are bigger than they look.

 

Yeah, as said earlier in the thread, the higher the Km's you are doing, the faster the pay back.

 

If you use the same capital cost logic to analyse swapping a petrol car for a petrol car, nobody would ever replace their car because you would take decades to see payback (if ever), but people (needlessly) do buy replacement petrol cars out of desire/image/envy/fashion/nostalgia etc.

 

But for sensible and modest people who don't have disposable income to throw around, the optimum time to upgrade to EV is when your old ICE dies - no argument. You're buying another car anyway so the capital cost between EV and ICE is much less of a question, and a slightly more expensive EV is easy to justify when you consider that in your analysis above, you're saving $2K a year in fuel (plus the servicing savings, registration savings etc).

 

Off topic, but buying any car on your mortgage without increasing your principle payments is more expensive than buying same car on a credit card. Think about it - you don't actually start paying the car off for another 25 - 30 years. Allowing people to put other things on mortgages without increasing payments is a system to keep customers indebted for life.


tripper1000
1247 posts

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  #2021190 23-May-2018 15:04
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MikeAqua: There is an article on stuff at the moment documenting a trip from Auckland to Welly driving an i3S without nursing it.  Long story short 12 hours for a ~647km trip.  Google estimates that trip at 8 hours. That's a 50% increase in elapsed time and an average progress rate (across the entire 12 hours) of 53km/hour.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/104073210/Can-you-drive-an-EV-from-Auckland-to-Wellington-in-one-day-stress-free

 

Yeah, no one is claiming anything other than Tesla's are GT cars. You do a trip like that for the adventure, not for the convenience.

 

Question to ponder: If you are going on a long trip, how likely is it that you are going on holiday, and if you are on holiday, how much of rush are you actually in? Juicy is renting EV camper-vans - when you think about it, if you are on holiday exploring a country, you don't see much of it from the motorway. What better way to see it than visiting every charging station between Auckland and Wellington?


 
 
 
 


MikeAqua
6055 posts

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  #2021250 23-May-2018 16:58
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tripper1000:

 

Yeah, no one is claiming anything other than Tesla's are GT cars. You do a trip like that for the adventure, not for the convenience.

 

Question to ponder: If you are going on a long trip, how likely is it that you are going on holiday, and if you are on holiday, how much of rush are you actually in? Juicy is renting EV camper-vans - when you think about it, if you are on holiday exploring a country, you don't see much of it from the motorway. What better way to see it than visiting every charging station between Auckland and Wellington?

 

 

The "it's about the journey" argument always sounds like an apology for the technology to me.

 

If you read the article I linked to the author describes a 40 minute coffee and muffin break and a 1 hour 40 lunch stop as 'normal'.  Stretching a coffee and muffin out to 40 minutes is an achievement in itself.  A muffin could only last about 7 minutes in my company - and that's if I was eating it with tweezers. An hour forty for lunch is unheard of, unless it's multiple courses.

 

Our last Auckland to Wellington trip took almost exactly 7 hours - due to a family emergency we shortened a trip and had to hustle somewhat to make a ferry crossing.  Even broke the no eating in the car rule - such was the gravity of the situation.





Mike


morrisk
217 posts

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  #2021282 23-May-2018 18:02
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What is the value of no emissions from the car and the pleasure of driving an EV?

 

Hard to put dollars to this but for me this far outweighs any dollars that are calculated in terms of petrol cost, oil and maintenance.

 

I have had an EV for 6 months now and driven just over 10,000km (Hyundai Ioniq) and would never go back to a petrol or diesel car.


kingdragonfly
5092 posts

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  #2021295 23-May-2018 18:46
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"Right-hand drive" / RHD means the steering wheel's on the same side as here in New Zealand.

Here's a webpage out of the UK called "Best new cars for 2020 and beyond"

It mentions a number of electric RHD cars

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/103133/best-new-cars-for-2020-and-beyond

There are a lot of RHD jeeps in the US: They are used for rural mail-delivery in the US.

So I suspect the 2020 electric Jeep Wranger will be available here, or at least easy to import.

Jeep will make an electric Wrangler in 2020

https://electrek.co/2017/11/30/jeep-electric-wrangler-2020/

frednz
1434 posts

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  #2021345 23-May-2018 20:09
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MikeAqua:

 

My 2.5L petrol car sits on 8.3L/100km fuel consumption for mixed use and we don't deliberately drive in an economical manner.

 

Open road driving is usually below 7L/100km if there are two of us.  

 

There is an article on stuff at the moment documenting a trip from Auckland to Welly driving an i3S without nursing it.  Long story short 12 hours for a ~647km trip.  Google estimates that trip at 8 hours. That's a 50% increase in elapsed time and an average progress rate (across the entire 12 hours) of 53km/hour.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/104073210/Can-you-drive-an-EV-from-Auckland-to-Wellington-in-one-day-stress-free

 

 

The article also said that:

 

Total journey cost - $53.21 for charging over 647km.

 

ChargeNet chargers cost 25 cents a minute, plus 25 cents per kWh, except for the Taupo charger that was 40 cents per kWh, with no time charge.

 

The total journey cost of $53.21 is a little higher than I thought it would be.

 

Smaller petrol cars can get around 5.5 litres / 100km of fuel consumption and use about 36 litres of petrol for a trip of 647km. At say $2.20 per litre, the cost for 647km would be about $79. Sure $53 is better than $79, but it's not all that great a saving.

 

The article shows that the BMW i3 is a great little around-town car, but its 200km range is not too great for a long trip. I'm waiting for an EV with a range of at least 400kms (64 kWh Hyundai Kona coming later this year), which would need only one charge on a trip between Auckland and Wellington.

 

 


GV27
2388 posts

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  #2021544 24-May-2018 07:35
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My Mini will average 38mpg which gives me around 700km to a 50l tank. I could make it to Welly with a splash and dash in Johnsonville. 

 

However give me an EV that lets me plug in at Taupo and then cruise the rest of the way and I'll happily switch. Finding the $$$ for a holiday is hard enough but it will be too hard if I have to hire a car each time. 

 

Hell, I'd settle for a car that can do a day trip around the Coromandel (including the Kennedy Bay loop) with one charge that didn't cost an arm and a leg. 


 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2021549 24-May-2018 07:47
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GV27:

 

My Mini will average 38mpg which gives me around 700km to a 50l tank. I could make it to Welly with a splash and dash in Johnsonville. 

 

However give me an EV that lets me plug in at Taupo and then cruise the rest of the way and I'll happily switch. Finding the $$$ for a holiday is hard enough but it will be too hard if I have to hire a car each time. 

 

Hell, I'd settle for a car that can do a day trip around the Coromandel (including the Kennedy Bay loop) with one charge that didn't cost an arm and a leg. 

 

 

Yep. Its getting closer but it isnt there. If they were cheap, hey just grab one and save fuel costs. But as they are expensive, we want to make sure its fits all our needs as we wont be upgrading them like phones. Id like to know how feasible a retro fit would be, cost wise. And the cost and quality of the many many Chinese offerings


MikeB4
15555 posts

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  #2021566 24-May-2018 08:30
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i replaced my SUV this year with a 2018 Suzuki Swift RS (I customised its look) it has been three weeks since i last put petrol in it. Range anxiety stopped me buying an EV


GV27
2388 posts

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  #2021576 24-May-2018 08:54
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tdgeek:

 

Yep. Its getting closer but it isnt there. If they were cheap, hey just grab one and save fuel costs. But as they are expensive, we want to make sure its fits all our needs as we wont be upgrading them like phones. Id like to know how feasible a retro fit would be, cost wise. And the cost and quality of the many many Chinese offerings

 

 

Just let me buy a classic Mini EV like BMW built as a one-off or the E Type Zero and I'll be happy.

 


Currently retrofitting is a cottage industry but given the improvements in motors (have a look at Nidec's latest e-axle) and battery price drops, I'm hoping affordable kits will be in reach for people wanting to repower classics. 


MikeAqua
6055 posts

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  #2021585 24-May-2018 09:06
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morrisk:

 

What is the value of no emissions from the car and the pleasure of driving an EV?

 

 

Low emissions.  EVs still have components that produce pollution.





Mike


wellygary
4992 posts

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  #2021596 24-May-2018 09:22
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GV27:

 

However give me an EV that lets me plug in at Taupo and then cruise the rest of the way and I'll happily switch.

 

Hell, I'd settle for a car that can do a day trip around the Coromandel (including the Kennedy Bay loop) with one charge that didn't cost an arm and a leg. 

 

 

That's the kicker, a Tesla S or X will do al you mention, its just that it will cost you $125 K minimum...


tdgeek
21495 posts

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  #2021599 24-May-2018 09:29
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Yep. Its getting closer but it isnt there. If they were cheap, hey just grab one and save fuel costs. But as they are expensive, we want to make sure its fits all our needs as we wont be upgrading them like phones. Id like to know how feasible a retro fit would be, cost wise. And the cost and quality of the many many Chinese offerings

 

 

Just let me buy a classic Mini EV like BMW built as a one-off or the E Type Zero and I'll be happy.

 


Currently retrofitting is a cottage industry but given the improvements in motors (have a look at Nidec's latest e-axle) and battery price drops, I'm hoping affordable kits will be in reach for people wanting to repower classics. 

 

 

Thats another option to help spur this tech on. Given that I assume the electrical circuitry is far far less complex than an ICE, I'd have thought a retrofit is quite a nice and not too hard a task. Must be an opportunity there for someone


MikeAqua
6055 posts

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  #2021638 24-May-2018 09:50
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tdgeek:

 

Thats another option to help spur this tech on. Given that I assume the electrical circuitry is far far less complex than an ICE, I'd have thought a retrofit is quite a nice and not too hard a task. Must be an opportunity there for someone

 

 

If you can buy the battery, electric drive and controls as an integrated system it should be relatively plug and play. Such system would surely include a DC 12v main for standard components like lights, audio, demister etc

 

Ancillary loads like A/C and brake boosters for any mechanical braking systems (if required) would be more complex.

 

 

 

I like the look of these http://ecochargerquads.com/eliminator.php#specs-two

 

We used to get 60km out of a tank in the quad bike on our farm, so up to 45km isn't that bad

 

 





Mike


Linuxluver

5615 posts

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  #2021642 24-May-2018 09:53
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tripper1000:

 

Dinga96:...... Did any one watch the story on seven sharp last night about "lecky cars" I thought this will be interesting ,some number crunching was going to be done by the owner of a leaf.What a waste of time, the reporter was not interested in any of that serious information.Guess that's all you can expect from that type of show.

 

Now consider that this is the same level of accuracy and care they put into all their stories and ask yourself if anyone should be watching that show at all.

 

 

I don't waste any time on it. Plus, it's often easier for me to do my own research on most subjects and come up with a better, overall understanding. 





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


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