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GV27
2388 posts

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  #2022189 25-May-2018 06:37
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MarkH67:

 

I understand buyers hesitating on the 30kWh Leaf, there is currently a question mark hanging over that particular version.  But if someone bought that Leaf from GVI with a 36-month warranty then the question would be "can you buy another battery in 4 or 5 or 6 years time if you need to?  The answer is likely to be yes I think, not that I can see into the future.

 

 

The main issue for me is that you're soon better off with a 24 kwh Leaf, so why not buy that instead? 


SaltyNZ
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  #2022193 25-May-2018 07:00
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GV27:

 

That would be fine if you were getting a premium product, but there's a lot of flimsy plastic on a Leaf that I wouldn't accept on a Suzuki Swift.

 

 

 

 

As someone who literally replaced a Swift with a Leaf, I'm not sure what you mean by that statement.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


GV27
2388 posts

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  #2022198 25-May-2018 07:29
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SaltyNZ:

 

GV27:

 

That would be fine if you were getting a premium product, but there's a lot of flimsy plastic on a Leaf that I wouldn't accept on a Suzuki Swift.

 

 

As someone who literally replaced a Swift with a Leaf, I'm not sure what you mean by that statement.

 

 

We have a 2010 Swift in our household; simple things like the seats and the feel of the steering wheel make a big difference. The *new* Leafs are a big improvement in this regard. So are the new Swifts; they're remarkably similar and it's a good thing. 


Linuxluver

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  #2022391 25-May-2018 12:08
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MikeAqua:

 

Yet all your shrill evangelism changes nothing - except to use energy and generate heat.

 

 

Recent studies have shown that some people, when faced with something they don't like, will say it is shrill or they are being shouted at.

They aren't. They just want to reject the message. 

if you could engage in some rational, evidence-based way you'd soon realise that what I'm saying is completely true. 

You don't like it though. I get that. 

I'm not evangelising, either. I'm simply saying the observed consequences of the climate change that has been expected for many decades now make it clear some very big changes are now happening...and accelerating as the CO2 emissions continute to rise. 

That's not shrill. 
That's not evangelising. 

It's a news report....and you want to turn it off because you don't like it.  





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frednz
1434 posts

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  #2022788 26-May-2018 09:37
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MarkH67:

 

frednz:

 

If you are buying a "good" Nissan 30 kWh Leaf (if there is such a vehicle), there are several second-hand ones that are listed on TradeMe for more than $40,000 and a lot between $30,000 and $40,000. So, these vehicles cost a great deal more than 1/3 the price of a new one and their battery quality is under a cloud due to the "Flip the Fleet" research.

 

Similarly, there are lots of second-hand 40 kWh Leafs advertised for between $53,000 to $63,000, so I would far prefer to wait until I could I get an NZ-New 40 kWh Leaf at these prices! Or even better, buy a new 64 kWh Hyundai Kona later this year.

 

There really is peace of mind and manufacturer protection from buying NZ-New vehicles and I wouldn't like to currently own a used 30 kWh Leaf in light of the battery degradation research. And can such owners buy a new battery in NZ and if so what do they cost?

 

 

I think you are deliberately being selective on the trademe pricing.  You can buy a 30kWh Leaf with a 36-month warranty for $25k https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-1626390855.htm?rsqid=6e2e14cfdca5476d85a870deafbcb7d2

 

 

Sure, there are 30 kWh Leafs you can buy for less than $30,000, but I was surprised to find that there are as many as 90 of them listed on Trade Me for more than $30,000, despite the early battery degradation research findings of "Flip the Fleet".

 

Dealers don't seem to be worried about this research if they can list as many as 90 of these Leafs for more than $30,000 and one for as high as $42,990! And none of the advertisements warn buyers that there is a potential early battery degradation problem with 30 kWh Leafs, despite the fact that "Consumer" thinks buyers should be warned.

 

And if the battery in your 30 kWh Leaf does start to degrade early, I wonder if a 36-month warranty would be any good, particularly if Nissan won't agree that there really is a problem?

 

 


MarkH67
401 posts

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  #2022794 26-May-2018 09:54
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frednz:

 

Sure, there are 30 kWh Leafs you can buy for less than $30,000, but I was surprised to find that there are as many as 90 of them listed on Trade Me for more than $30,000, despite the early battery degradation research findings of "Flip the Fleet".

 

 

That just proves you need to shop around.  I'm not entirely sure about why there is such a large variation in the price.  Is the Leaf for over $40k that much better than the ones around $25k?

 

Personally, I'd be a bit cautious about buying a 30kWh Leaf until more is known about the battery issue.  My 24kWh Leaf seems to be doing fine, I haven't noticed any drop in range in almost 10 months of owning it.  My Leaf isn't that great for longer trips due to the very limited range, going to a 30kWh Leaf isn't all that much different in that the range is only a small amount less limited.

 

If I was in the market for a new car then I'd be looking at the newer vehicles coming out with ~60kWh LG Chem batteries with thermal management.  Being a different brand, they aren't likely to have the same issues as the 30kWh batteries have.  With twice the range of the 30kWh Leafs, they definitely have a big advantage for longer trips.  I suspect that those new LG batteries will be available in quite a few different vehicles, I've seen mention that LG has agreements to supply a bunch of different car manufacturers like Nissan, Hyundai, VW, etc.  For me the Leaf is a suitably sized car, I'd really love to own the new 2019 60kWh version with ~360km range.

 

 


GV27
2388 posts

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  #2022919 26-May-2018 11:46
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I keep looking at well-sorted kit car products and thinking about what the options might be for building straight to EV. Many are classic shapes and in some cases, lightweight tubular chassis. Owning a toy becomes a much more interest proposition if the running costs become effectively just an insurance cost.


 
 
 
 


kingdragonfly
5093 posts

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  #2029223 4-Jun-2018 14:04
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0-160 & detailed review: 2018 Jaguar I-Pace


WyleECoyoteNZ
795 posts

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  #2030721 6-Jun-2018 12:15
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kingdragonfly: 0-160 & detailed review: 2018 Jaguar I-Pace

 

I watched this last night. 

 

I hate to say it, but if I were in the market for a $150K SUV type of vehicle, this would be a serious consideration.

 

I like the style

 

I like the brand and it's heritage.

 

Autocar UK have also done a review too. That can be found here 


Linuxluver

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  #2030770 6-Jun-2018 13:01
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GV27:

 

I keep looking at well-sorted kit car products and thinking about what the options might be for building straight to EV. Many are classic shapes and in some cases, lightweight tubular chassis. Owning a toy becomes a much more interest proposition if the running costs become effectively just an insurance cost.

 

 

The Gold Star will go to the person who works out how to do bespoke conversions to electric of beloved ICE cars for something resembling decent range and a reasonable price. 

If you had a 1950s hotrod would you pay - say - $20,000 to convert it to an EV with reliable 300km range? If not that much, how much? 

I'm well aware people mad about their cars will spend enormous sums on cosmetic changes and changes that might enhance performance slightly......so what about a complete refresh? A heart transplant? 





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SaltyNZ
5474 posts

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  #2030792 6-Jun-2018 13:16
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Linuxluver:

 

The Gold Star will go to the person who works out how to do bespoke conversions to electric of beloved ICE cars for something resembling decent range and a reasonable price. 

If you had a 1950s hotrod would you pay - say - $20,000 to convert it to an EV with reliable 300km range? If not that much, how much? 

I'm well aware people mad about their cars will spend enormous sums on cosmetic changes and changes that might enhance performance slightly......so what about a complete refresh? A heart transplant? 

 

 

 

 

Like Mercury Energy did with the Falcon? Yeah, I'm sure there will be a small but lucrative market there. The main issue I can see is that because they were not designed with big batteries in mind to begin with, it will be difficult to find somewhere to put a big battery. That and the fact that your 1957 Falcon probably weighs about 45 tons being built completely out of steel.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


Linuxluver

5615 posts

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  #2030810 6-Jun-2018 13:26
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SaltyNZ:

 

Linuxluver:

 

The Gold Star will go to the person who works out how to do bespoke conversions to electric of beloved ICE cars for something resembling decent range and a reasonable price. 

If you had a 1950s hotrod would you pay - say - $20,000 to convert it to an EV with reliable 300km range? If not that much, how much? 

I'm well aware people mad about their cars will spend enormous sums on cosmetic changes and changes that might enhance performance slightly......so what about a complete refresh? A heart transplant? 

 

 

Like Mercury Energy did with the Falcon? Yeah, I'm sure there will be a small but lucrative market there. The main issue I can see is that because they were not designed with big batteries in mind to begin with, it will be difficult to find somewhere to put a big battery. That and the fact that your 1957 Falcon probably weighs about 45 tons being built completely out of steel.

 

 

The electric motor is usually a fraction of the size of the petrol engine....so most of the cars I've seen have the battery under the bonnet. It doesn't change the weight distribution too much. The Mercury car only has about 100km range (perhaps limited by a PR budget - ;-))....so more battery and less (chassis) weight would be a good idea. You'd want regen.....so maybe the motors should actually go on the rear wheels. They are about the size of a rugby ball if not smaller. But it will also boild down to the software managing the whole thing...and understanding how to talk to all the components. 

Engineering, electronics, software.......so much to learn. 





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If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

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MikeB4
15555 posts

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  #2030853 6-Jun-2018 14:00
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Conversions have a history of being very bad. Examples from the past are WW2 gas conversions, LPG and CNG conversions of the 70s and 80s. The best is purpose design and build EVs but they to have some massive hurdles to negotiate.


tripper1000
1248 posts

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  #2030906 6-Jun-2018 14:33
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Nice try Mike but I don't think many people will be duped into thinking there are any similarities between neutering an ICE by feeding it fuels it wasn't designed for such carbon monoxide/methane/propane and the conversion of a chassis to all electric. For a start all EV conversions are running on the recommended fuel (electrons) and from an engineering point of view electric motors as smaller, simpler and more powerful the ICE they replace. This makes fitting the motors mechanically straight forward, the performance gains attractive the only hard bit being not opening the throttle up wide and destroying the ICE drive chain with all that additional torque.

 

A lot of people are doing this already and seem pretty happy with the results. Youtube is choca-block with video's of EV conversions. Everything from old VW's to go cruising in, to speed record breaking monsters.

 

Speed record breaking 68 Mustang.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjQtrysPzVI

 

Modern Corvette.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7REQyK3KlI

 

Enfield EV to better EV conversion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQMCgSEChgg

 

911 Porsche

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs


ETO

ETO
1 post

Wannabe Geek


  #2034481 12-Jun-2018 14:54
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Hi guys,

 

This thread is a great resource. Thanks for all your wisdom.

 

I have a question to all the north Auckland EV owners, especially the ones on the Hibiscus Coast. Did you use just your general car mechanic for a service, or did you have a good experience with mechanic specialising in EVs? I'm not able to find anybody with a special interest in EVs up here.

 

Thanks all for your help.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Eto


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