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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1606151 8-Aug-2016 00:57
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xlinknz:

 

Diesel Carcinogens come from particulate matter which is all but stopped with a particulate filter

 

 

 

 

Thanks for being a responsible diesel owner. If every diesel owner was like you it would make a massive difference.

 

 

 

Massive gains could be made by simply getting the gross emitters off the road or fixed.

 

(for example there is a modern BMW 7 series I see sometimes on my way to work, it spews out a cloud of black smoke every time it accelerates (even gently), not something that any moden car should do.)

 

 

 

There are limitations to the effectiveness of the diesel particulate filters and there are a lot of nasty fumes that are not affected by the particulate filter (i.e. NOx).

 

If diesel emission standards were working, the air quality of european cities should have got better as over recent years as their vehicle fleets got newer(and hence covered by higher emissions standards). The reverse was actually the case. A sad story regarding well meaning policy backfiring...

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding wood (and other rubbish / toxic waste burning), this is a bigger issue than car fumes (although dropping as more people move to more convenient methods of heating). How can you stop people from burning things they shouldn't in their fire (other than the obvious of banning fireplaces?)




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  Reply # 1606170 8-Aug-2016 07:29
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MikeAqua:

 

joker97:

 

MikeAqua:

 

3) Presumably hydrogen will be subject to similar regulation as LPG.  So service stations that currently can't have LPG pumps won't be able to have hydrogen pumps either?

 

 

I'd love to see service stations produce hydrogen pumps ... The regulation would be this: no lifeform within a 1 mile radius of service station thanks. 

 

or if there are buildings nearby they each need their own 1m thick concrete bunker/shell, but certainly no jay walking in that area

 

 

Hydrogen contain three time as much energy as CNG and four times as much as LPG.  But, if it were being produced on site, less storage capacity would be required.  So arguably, capacity could be reduced to make the total risk about the same.

 

 

By that standard, there should be no issues making it at home then. 

My problem with hydrogen is that it's a make-work project for petrol stations. It takes power to make the hydrogen...and the same power could drive two EVs for every hydrogen car (assuming you're not burning natural gas to make it)....and the EVs can charge at home.  





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  Reply # 1606171 8-Aug-2016 07:32
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Scott3:

 

MikeAqua:

 

 

 

Hydrogen contain three time as much energy as CNG and four times as much as LPG.  But, if it were being produced on site, less storage capacity would be required.  So arguably, capacity could be reduced to make the total risk about the same.

 

 

Hydrogen has crazy low energy density per volume at atmospheric pressure. You have to compress it to crazy high pressures (or cool to cryogenic temperatures) to store a reasonable amount in a tank of reasonable size.

 

......

 

For hydrogen, as an example the Toyota Hydrogen car has two very large carbon fiber high pressure tanks to store its Hydrogen. Even with its high efficency fuel cell (as opposed to inefficiently burning the gas in a piston engine), its range is only around the 500km mark. 

 

See the link below for a table showing energy densities. Note that LNG and Cooled liquid hydrogen require cryogenic temperatures which are not really feasible to maintain in vehicles. (unless you allow the liquid to boil off to stay cold - not idea due to waste). LPG is a blend of Propane & butane. The compressed propane data-point is close enough for my needs. 

 

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9991

 

 

And we will be happy to use hydrogen tanks made in China........because they'll be cheaper, right? :-(  





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  Reply # 1606172 8-Aug-2016 07:34
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Sidestep:

 

Some years ago the wife and I spent a weekend riding around in hydrogen powered buses. The city of Whistler, B.C. had a whole fleet of them.

 

Last year I heard they'd retired them all and replaced them with diesels.

 

We still own shares in Ballard Power (maker of PEM Fuel cells that powered the buses). They soared in the early 00's then tanked when reality set in.
They've remained in business, but zero-emission fuel stacks have become a niche product, mainly as safe back-up power for sensitive/enclosed areas.

 

As Yogi Berra said “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
But I don't see the hydrogen economy being a viable thing (although it was a beautiful dream) unless there's a production or storage breakthrough. 

 

 

It would happen if you could make your own hydrogen at home from water and power. But why bother? You can drive TWO EVs for the power used to create the hydrogen for one car. (EV's are twice as efficient in converting electricity into motin as compared to hydrogen)...... 





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  Reply # 1606181 8-Aug-2016 08:13
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Linuxluver:

 

Sidestep:

 

Some years ago the wife and I spent a weekend riding around in hydrogen powered buses. The city of Whistler, B.C. had a whole fleet of them.

 

Last year I heard they'd retired them all and replaced them with diesels.

 

We still own shares in Ballard Power (maker of PEM Fuel cells that powered the buses). They soared in the early 00's then tanked when reality set in.
They've remained in business, but zero-emission fuel stacks have become a niche product, mainly as safe back-up power for sensitive/enclosed areas.

 

As Yogi Berra said “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
But I don't see the hydrogen economy being a viable thing (although it was a beautiful dream) unless there's a production or storage breakthrough. 

 

 

It would happen if you could make your own hydrogen at home from water and power. But why bother? You can drive TWO EVs for the power used to create the hydrogen for one car. (EV's are twice as efficient in converting electricity into motin as compared to hydrogen)...... 

 

 

 

 

But with Hydrogen Fuel Cell you don't need the looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong extension cord





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1606186 8-Aug-2016 08:45
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Some data from Motor Industry Association site:

 

The Toyota Corolla remains NZ's most popular (NZ new) car.  Year to date (July 2016) sold 2564 units.

 

It's way, way off being NZ's most popular vehicle though.  Year to date (July 2016) the Ford Ranger Ute sold 4925 units.

 

A breakdown of "top 15 sales" year to date (July 2015), utes, suvs and crossovers (ie RAV4 etc) sold 27,919 units vs only 9,838 "cars".

 

It's hard to extrapolate exactly from those figures, but looks like about 50% of new vehicle sales in NZ would be diesel.

 

Good luck trying to change NZ public opinion so they buy environmentally friendly vehicles by choice.  


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  Reply # 1606216 8-Aug-2016 09:54
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Linuxluver:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Hydrogen contain three time as much energy as CNG and four times as much as LPG.  But, if it were being produced on site, less storage capacity would be required.  So arguably, capacity could be reduced to make the total risk about the same.

 

 

By that standard, there should be no issues making it at home then. 

My problem with hydrogen is that it's a make-work project for petrol stations. It takes power to make the hydrogen...and the same power could drive two EVs for every hydrogen car (assuming you're not burning natural gas to make it)....and the EVs can charge at home.  

 

 

Service stations (some) also are installing EV charge points.  One could call that 'make work' too ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1606218 8-Aug-2016 09:56
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"Rolling Coal" by anti-environmentalists.

 

"Targets of coal rolling often include owners of hybrid vehicles (hence the nickname "Prius duster") as well as bicyclists and pedestrians.

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1606222 8-Aug-2016 09:59
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Linuxluver:

 

 

 

And we will be happy to use hydrogen tanks made in China........because they'll be cheaper, right? :-(  

 

 

 

 

comments like this devalue your argument immensely.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1606239 8-Aug-2016 10:14
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Fred99:

 

Some data from Motor Industry Association site:

 

....

 

A breakdown of "top 15 sales" year to date (July 2015), utes, suvs and crossovers (ie RAV4 etc) sold 27,919 units vs only 9,838 "cars".

 

It's hard to extrapolate exactly from those figures, but looks like about 50% of new vehicle sales in NZ would be diesel.

 

Good luck trying to change NZ public opinion so they buy environmentally friendly vehicles by choice.  

 

 

New car purchases are mostly fleet vehicles.  So it's more a case of convincing companies than private car buyers.

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1606246 8-Aug-2016 10:39
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Linuxluver:

 

And we will be happy to use hydrogen tanks made in China........because they'll be cheaper, right? :-(  

 

 

It could be that the only way that EV uptake works is that China start making them to drive the price down ... ?


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  Reply # 1606247 8-Aug-2016 10:39
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MikeAqua:

 

Fred99:

 

Some data from Motor Industry Association site:

 

....

 

A breakdown of "top 15 sales" year to date (July 2015), utes, suvs and crossovers (ie RAV4 etc) sold 27,919 units vs only 9,838 "cars".

 

It's hard to extrapolate exactly from those figures, but looks like about 50% of new vehicle sales in NZ would be diesel.

 

Good luck trying to change NZ public opinion so they buy environmentally friendly vehicles by choice.  

 

 

New car purchases are mostly fleet vehicles.  So it's more a case of convincing companies than private car buyers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well it's probably a case of convincing the general public, then companies might be influenced by public opinion. I actually think that most already are.

 

I'm not sure about the "fleet" designation though - a lot of new vehicles are purchased (or leased) through company structures for tax reasons,  The fleets of vehicles owned by larger organisations - privately owned like banks or public like DHBs etc seem to be predominated by smaller and more efficient vehicles.  A travelling salesman probably needs more space for samples/stock, a foreman for Fletchers or rural supplies outfit probably gets a ute.  I did at one time get an SUV as a company vehicle - but only because I was doing some business on remote sites down often muddy access roads - and couldn't get to some of the sites in a car.


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  Reply # 1606250 8-Aug-2016 10:50
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MikeAqua:

 

Fred99:

 

Some data from Motor Industry Association site:

 

....

 

A breakdown of "top 15 sales" year to date (July 2015), utes, suvs and crossovers (ie RAV4 etc) sold 27,919 units vs only 9,838 "cars".

 

It's hard to extrapolate exactly from those figures, but looks like about 50% of new vehicle sales in NZ would be diesel.

 

Good luck trying to change NZ public opinion so they buy environmentally friendly vehicles by choice.  

 

 

New car purchases are mostly fleet vehicles.  So it's more a case of convincing companies than private car buyers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In recent years there has been an increasing trend for private new car purchases with many brands having models that are close in price to used stock.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1606354 8-Aug-2016 14:38
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MikeB4:

 

In recent years there has been an increasing trend for private new car purchases with many brands having models that are close in price to used stock.

 

 

Last year 2/3 new vehicle registrations in NZ were by organisations (companies, govt agencies etc).

 

Link to article quoting MTA stats: -

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/76376531/Vehicle-sales-strong-but-New-Zealands-fleet-getting-older

 

 

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1606372 8-Aug-2016 14:50
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Companies have several 'drivers' for vehicle purchase, including: -

 

  • Cost of operation (including tax considerations)
  • Function - load carrying, off road etc.
  • Driver preference (especially where the vehicle is part of someone's remuneration package).
  • Sustainability/public perception

Usually in that order.





Mike

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