Most reliable Automatic in a used hatch back?

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Batman

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Reply # 1680309 30-Nov-2016 21:01

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TeaLeaf:

Are all hatchbacks going to be costly due to this DSG style torque converter, do all 2005 onwards hatchbacks use this style Auto?

Its actually harder to find a manual now than an auto funny enough.

DSG is not a traditional auto

Manual: Gear + clutch

Auto: Gear + torque converter or something like that, no clutch

DSG: Gear + 2 robotic clutches, no torque converter ...

CVT: no gear no clutch no torque converter ... has 2 belts and 2 cones :)

Not many cars come with dual clutch tranny ... I'd say mainly traditional autos, pretty reliable though not as robust as traditional manuals

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

Scott3

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Reply # 1680365 30-Nov-2016 23:07

joker97:

CVT: no gear no clutch no torque converter ... has 2 belts and 2 cones :)

CVT's generally do have torque converters, They have a minimum ratio, and use the torque converter to deal with speeds under this. Generally once car gets moving over 5 - 10 kmph the torque converter will lock out for better efficiency.

Otherwise your listing is correct.

Batman

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Reply # 1680407 1-Dec-2016 06:34

Scott3:

joker97:

CVT: no gear no clutch no torque converter ... has 2 belts and 2 cones :)

CVT's generally do have torque converters, They have a minimum ratio, and use the torque converter to deal with speeds under this. Generally once car gets moving over 5 - 10 kmph the torque converter will lock out for better efficiency.

Otherwise your listing is correct.

Woops thanks I should have said "to my best understanding" ;p

Now to those CVT haters, let me say to my best understanding, they first appeared in formula 1 and were so incredibly superior at producing optimal torque to power that they were banned in F1. So in theory if it is built with robust reliability and longevity, when coupled with good software for optimal throttle response, in theory, would be at least as good as anything.

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

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Reply # 1680417 1-Dec-2016 07:32

The actual answer of most reliable "automatic" ... I'd say the Toyota 3 speed auto. The best, would probably be the ZF 6 speeds (latest is 8 speed, I think they are about to release the 9 speed).

Longevity however, would depend on first and foremost how the car's been driven. If Jeremy Clarkson took a non ZF and did 10,000ks of top gear filming on it I'd say it's shod (reason I say that is when I went to BMW track day - I believe we were driving 8 speed ZFs - and drove it like Jeremy Clarkson, I asked the instructor what happened to those cars; he said they sell them as used cars at 10,000ks and the condition of the car "will be better than buying new" "because they are so well maintained" ???!)

If you took a CVT that was owned by a box standard grandma driving a 1000kg car who probably never changed oil for 10 years I'd say it will last another 15 years.

Second it will depend on oil and filter changes (as Tim said) - although is impossible to change the oil without a forceful flush (as more than half the oil cannot be drained passively), and even newer cars are like Macs, can't change the filter without disassembling the whole thing!

Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.

Bung

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Reply # 1680454 1-Dec-2016 07:47

joker97:
Now to those CVT haters, let me say to my best understanding, they first appeared in formula 1 and were so incredibly superior at producing optimal torque to power that they were banned in F1. So in theory if it is built with robust reliability and longevity, when coupled with good software for optimal throttle response, in theory, would be at least as good as anything.

Sorry, your best understanding is so unreliable you should do some checking before posting. CVTs in cars have been around for over 100 years. Your theory is correct and many haven't been built with robust reliability and longevity so it pays to research specific models.

TeaLeaf

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Reply # 1682353 5-Dec-2016 10:59

I have since found out the DSG comes in 2 types, a wet clutch and a dry clutch. And I read the first failings were due to the wrong trans fluid being used...?

I looked at a mazda axela/6. Kind of like a hatchback but a sedan, not a bad car. It had an ordinary cluth, no tiptronic. PLENTY of room for four people.

jonathan18

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Reply # 1682373 5-Dec-2016 11:06

TeaLeaf:

I have since found out the DSG comes in 2 types, a wet clutch and a dry clutch. And I read the first failings were due to the wrong trans fluid being used...?

I looked at a mazda axela/6. Kind of like a hatchback but a sedan, not a bad car. It had an ordinary cluth, no tiptronic. PLENTY of room for four people.

Axela's the Japanese name for the Mazda 3, not the 6 (which is the Atenza).

If it's an auto, there'll be no clutch at all. The Mazda auto is pretty good, actually; as mentioned earlier on this thread, they're still using a conventional auto (the recent one, under the Skyactiv marketing, being a design they claim gives benefits of three auto-type boxes), so no CVT.

TeaLeaf

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Reply # 1682375 5-Dec-2016 11:09

My bad Jonathon it was an Atenza. Yeah definitely a good old fashioned auto like the corrolla GLs. I looked at Corollas, but you dont get a lot for your money, outside reliability I guess.

The Axela, was ok too.

jonathan18

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Reply # 1682385 5-Dec-2016 11:29

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TeaLeaf:

My bad Jonathon it was an Atenza. Yeah definitely a good old fashioned auto like the corrolla GLs. I looked at Corollas, but you dont get a lot for your money, outside reliability I guess.

The Axela, was ok too.

Yep, I call that the Toyota tax! One always seems to pay more for any equivalent Toyota, and/or the vehicle comes with far fewer features. (I mean even some of the cheap nasty Chinese cars have alloys, something entry-level Corollas have certainly been lacking in the recent past if not still.)

I must say reading this and your other thread has ensured I'll never purchase a car with a DSG box... I also dislike CVTs, so personally I'd be looking at something with a more conventional gear box.

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Reply # 1682390 5-Dec-2016 11:34

Id suggest you guys read through this thread with some of my replies. Link
It has a lot of info about the DSG and common problems. You can PM me and ask a question if needed.
The DSG transmission is great, Saves fuel. Lose less power. Amazing on the open road. NOT AROUND TOWN.

Every VW made these days is a DSG. Transporter Van, Golf, Polo, Tiguan, Touran, Passat (Some are auto)
The only ones that are not: Amarok, Tow Rag, Crafter (Automatic single clutch).

The best automatic gearbox to date i have found is the ZF. I have never found one with a fault that has been maintained. Even at 300,000 they are still mint.. Avoid Jatco..

TeaLeaf:

I have since found out the DSG comes in 2 types, a wet clutch and a dry clutch. And I read the first failings were due to the wrong trans fluid being used...?

The fluid is different between the two but thats not the case. Its down to how people drive the vehicles. The dry clutches wear out and burn easily.

Also guys the DSG needs to be calibrated often so it knows where the biting point is on the clutch as it actually is a true manual shifted by a mechatronic unit.

Mechatronics are a very common failure across the board. Its unusual to find a stock mechatronic in a VW or audi with 50,000 kms or more.

joker97:

I asked the instructor what happened to those cars; he said they sell them as used cars at 10,000ks and the condition of the car "will be better than buying new" "because they are so well maintained" ???!)

Lol.... Dont ever ever buy an ex demo. Those cars are given hell. Absolutely thrashed from dead bone cold. I watched Porsche sales men middle of winter start cars up rev them a bit and take off up the road foot flat on a dead cold performance engine.
Sure they "recondition for sale" but that doesnt help that fact the engine is shot and gearbox.

KiwiME

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Reply # 1685974 11-Dec-2016 10:42

OP, you won't have issues with a 7-speed dry clutch DSG if you are a normal driver and the car (VW/AUDI/SKODA) is 2014 or later. They are a little quirky at parking speeds but have the advantage of minimal losses at open road speeds and are very unobtrusive. If it didn't have a gear indicator I would be hard pressed to know when it shifts.

First and second gears are quite low to suit take-off and crawling in traffic. Driven normally away at a traffic light it will reach forth by the time I exit the intersection.

If you are looking at an older car, best buy a conventional automatic from Nissan, Toyota, Suzuki, etc.

TeaLeaf

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Reply # 1686200 11-Dec-2016 20:48

Makes me want to go back to a 2.5 or 3.0 legacy, that damn .... who wrote us off tboned.

I went round the yards today. The older Demio actually seems to have more room. but hard to find a 1.5. Axelas were nice but the price they want for them ouch and most were only 1.5l.

Id say aside from some Outbacks they were the only cars that stood out, the atenza is nice but too big

Scott3

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Reply # 1686277 11-Dec-2016 23:33

TeaLeaf:

hard to find a 1.5. Axelas were nice but the price they want for them ouch and most were only 1.5l.

Mazda's are popular at the moment, if you want a cheaper alternative, take a look at a tiida.

I wouldn't get to concerned about engine size (particually as you live in the city). A 1.5L hatchback will keep up with traffic fine, take one for a test drive. Larger engines are more comfortable out of the city because they don't have to work as hard up hills, but particually if the car isn't fully loaded, this generally isn't much of an issue.

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Reply # 1686309 12-Dec-2016 08:00

TeaLeaf:

Are all hatchbacks going to be costly due to this DSG style torque converter, do all 2005 onwards hatchbacks use this style Auto?

Its actually harder to find a manual now than an auto funny enough.

Or get a car that doesn't have a gearbox at all and is gradually being recognised as the most reliable car around, perhaps ever made...

Extremely Reliable Car

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I'm on a high fibre diet.

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