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  Reply # 1701323 11-Jan-2017 11:38 Send private message

If you had to have insurance and the base price was, say, $1200 (what I used to pay for a diesel Passat last time I was living in the UK) a year and every speeding ticket, red light ticket or accident in which third parties could not be conclusively held responsible for causing would add $650/year to your premium and speed camera tickets added 25 demerit points as well as the fine, would you drive differently?






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  Reply # 1701330 11-Jan-2017 11:51 One person supports this post Send private message

Here is an idea, a three strikes regime  for offences like drink driving, excessive speeding, deliberate loss of traction, dangerous driving. For the last three one strike could be earned back by successfully completing an advanced driving course or no further convictions over a ten year period. As for drink driving there should be no

 

chances to win back, three strikes and it's a permanent driving ban. If then caught driving it is mandatory 2 years imprisonment. 





Mike
IT Management Consultant, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

 

 


 

 



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  Reply # 1701333 11-Jan-2017 12:08 Send private message

TimA:

 

cadman:

 

TimA:

 

debo:

 

MikeB4: 

Have you not seen the large sign warning of accident Zones?

 

Can't recall any.  Good to see they have some around.  I think it was better when the Police concentrated the enforcement of speed limits in these areas.  

 

 

Drive North of Auckland and you will come across 2-3 of these Accident zone. The signs are 1.5M by about 2.5M Quite large. One would say a focused driver would easily notice such signs.

 

 

As long as what they're focussed on isn't the important things like driving conditions, such as the road and other vehicles and actual hazards, and instead signage hinting to him to do just that. I pretty much ignore advisory signs like these - IMO they add nothing to safety.

 

 

 

 

Maybe i am extremely observative compared to the rest. 
But that begs the question, If your paying attention to the above. How do you know what speed zone your in? If you cant see a massive reflective sign how do you see a small little round one?
You mean 'is'? "focussed on isn't the important things"

 

 

Yet you didn't observe where I said advisory signs. It's about filtering out the irrelevant to focus on the important. So, no, I mean exactly what I posted.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1701336 11-Jan-2017 12:11 Send private message

On so many of our roads there is simply no-where to go to avoid an accident.  Often the verge is simply a meter or less of tarmac between the white line and a barrier/ditch/cliff/tree/bank/power-pole ...

 

So you often can't avoid other people who lose control.

 

The other issue is seatbelts.  A concerning high proportion of people who die are not wearing seat belts, despite them being available. 

 

I can't understand that at all.

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1701345 11-Jan-2017 12:31 Send private message

MikeAqua:

 

On so many of our roads there is simply no-where to go to avoid an accident.  Often the verge is simply a meter or less of tarmac between the white line and a barrier/ditch/cliff/tree/bank/power-pole ...

 

So you often can't avoid other people who lose control.

 

It's the law of diminishing returns in action. We're a nation with low population density so the km of road per capita is high and roading costs a lot of money - we simply can't afford median barriers or wide verges everywhere.

 

The only practical solution available is better quality drivers - ones that are actually engaged in the process of driving rather than simply steering.

 

Our driver licencing system is woefully inadequate - the prescribed standards are far too low and focussed on the wrong things. There's also no compulsory periodic practical retesting (although we'd need better quality testers to instigate that anyway). There's an ambulance-at-the-bottom-of-the-cliff mentality from the bureaucrats that in order to reduce harm we just have to drive slower rather than drive better and don't crash in the first place. It's ridiculous.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1701356 11-Jan-2017 12:56 One person supports this post Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Here is an idea, a three strikes regime  for offences like drink driving, excessive speeding, deliberate loss of traction, dangerous driving. For the last three one strike could be earned back by successfully completing an advanced driving course or no further convictions over a ten year period. As for drink driving there should be no

 

chances to win back, three strikes and it's a permanent driving ban. If then caught driving it is mandatory 2 years imprisonment. 

 

 

I don't know how you put deliberate loss of traction in with drink driving and dangerous driving.

 

The only people loss of traction kills are stupid ones that stand too close to a out of control car with a driver without skill. How many happen per year?

 

Considering how many burnouts per year don't kill people, it's nothing like drink driving.


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  Reply # 1701398 11-Jan-2017 14:06 Send private message

cadman:

 

It's the law of diminishing returns in action. We're a nation with low population density so the km of road per capita is high and roading costs a lot of money - we simply can't afford median barriers or wide verges everywhere.

 

The only practical solution available is better quality drivers - ones that are actually engaged in the process of driving rather than simply steering.

 

 

Driver behaviour is the hardest thing to change, and encouraging helpful proactive behaviour is a total paradigm shift for NZ govt.  Almost all driver education and enforcement is focussed on discouraging harmful behaviours.  Sure you can beef up driver training but that takes 40 years to work through the entire driving public.

 

An education programme that focusses on improving driver capability is unheard of in NZ and it's an order of magnitude higher in complexity and cost than the current system of advertising and punitive measures.  We've squeezed that stone dry - another example of diminishing returns.

 

 





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  Reply # 1701416 11-Jan-2017 14:16 Send private message

MikeAqua:

 

The other issue is seatbelts.  A concerning high proportion of people who die are not wearing seat belts, despite them being available. 

 

I can't understand that at all.

 

 

 

That was the point (or part of it) that I was trying to make before - you could spend a large % of the GDP at the expense of health of defence or whatever on improving roads, but if there are a high number of idiots who are going to drive drunk, and/or without a seatbelt and/or at totally excessive speed then it is just money wasted.  Not so long ago, I was overtaken on SH1 north of Whangarei by a guy in jeans riding a motorbike, doing crazy overtaking moves at about 160kph - these are the ones who make up most of the toll statistics and IMHO it's not worth spending a dollar more trying to save them.


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  Reply # 1701423 11-Jan-2017 14:24 Send private message

shk292:

 

 you could spend a large % of the GDP at the expense of health of defence or whatever on improving roads, but if there are a high number of idiots who are going to drive drunk, and/or without a seatbelt and/or at totally excessive speed then it is just money wasted.  Not so long ago, I was overtaken on SH1 north of Whangarei by a guy in jeans riding a motorbike, doing crazy overtaking moves at about 160kph - these are the ones who make up most of the toll statistics and IMHO it's not worth spending a dollar more trying to save them.

 

 

See now there I beg to differ.  You can't save those fools from themselves, but you can give innocent bystanders (like me) and escape route.

 

I'm somewhat hot on this topic right now as I had very close call a couple of weeks ago, where I had nowhere to go but into vertical rock bank.  Really scary stuff.  Literally a couple of feet in it.  Other car (big old school patrol) spun 180* and ended up on my side of the road.





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  Reply # 1701428 11-Jan-2017 14:28 Send private message

MikeAqua:

 

See now there I beg to differ.  You can't save those fools from themselves, but you can give innocent bystanders (like me) and escape route.

 

I'm somewhat hot on this topic right now as I had very close call a couple of weeks ago, where I had nowhere to go but into vertical rock bank.  Really scary stuff.  Literally a couple of feet in it.  Other car (big old school patrol) spun 180* and ended up on my side of the road.

 

 

Yep, I agree that's a bad situation.  But whether it is worth extending the shoulder of every road in NZ to avoid this happening is debatable, however harsh that sounds




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  Reply # 1701437 11-Jan-2017 14:48 Send private message

blakamin:

 

MikeB4:

 

Here is an idea, a three strikes regime  for offences like drink driving, excessive speeding, deliberate loss of traction, dangerous driving. For the last three one strike could be earned back by successfully completing an advanced driving course or no further convictions over a ten year period. As for drink driving there should be no

 

chances to win back, three strikes and it's a permanent driving ban. If then caught driving it is mandatory 2 years imprisonment. 

 

 

I don't know how you put deliberate loss of traction in with drink driving and dangerous driving.

 

The only people loss of traction kills are stupid ones that stand too close to a out of control car with a driver without skill. How many happen per year?

 

Considering how many burnouts per year don't kill people, it's nothing like drink driving.

 

 

 

 

SLOT.. Yes a few of my friends have been done for that. I have in my time sustained a loss of traction and can control a vehicle while is doesnt have any traction in the rear half very competently as i have race track experience and been to one too many drift days (How to lose all your money days). 
Its an interesting case, As the minimum punishment you receive is a loss of licence for 6 months or more.
I have been to 'street racing' events as a spectator many times and i have never seen anyone injured from burnouts. I have done burnouts on private property with in the law and never injured myself or another.






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  Reply # 1701460 11-Jan-2017 15:33 Send private message

MikeB4:

 

The law requires you to ensure that your car is up to WoF standard before you drive, *not* once a week. And, since neither you nor (I assume) your charming wife nor I is a mechanic, we aren't qualified to heck our wheel bearings and whatnot so we can't ensure our cars are up to WoF standard ourselves. Your late father I assume could have done it, but I'll bet you that he didn't do it every time before he drove either.

 

 

 

 I am going to leave it here as I think you are just being.... well you know. I am not playing today. 

 

 

I think the word that you're struggling for there is "correct"

 

 




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  Reply # 1701466 11-Jan-2017 15:57 Send private message

frankv:

 

MikeB4:

 

The law requires you to ensure that your car is up to WoF standard before you drive, *not* once a week. And, since neither you nor (I assume) your charming wife nor I is a mechanic, we aren't qualified to heck our wheel bearings and whatnot so we can't ensure our cars are up to WoF standard ourselves. Your late father I assume could have done it, but I'll bet you that he didn't do it every time before he drove either.

 

 

 

 I am going to leave it here as I think you are just being.... well you know. I am not playing today. 

 

 

I think the word that you're struggling for there is "correct"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oi no bickering or bringing it to a personal level. Mike is more than capable of checking his vehicle.

 

A wheel bearing will audibly fail and is a very uncommon thing to be spontaneously broken before a drive. Mikes more talking about tire pressures, fluids, leaks, wipers, debris in wheel well and other basic checks anyone would do before trip or weekly. 
A WOF on a vehicle is every 6 months or 12. Depending on the age. An older car may wear out parts faster so thats why we have a 6 month WOF to catch any slow developing hidden problems like a wheel bearing, bushings, ball joints. You name it.
Maybe stop trying to debunk everything the bloke says, Its rude.






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  Reply # 1701470 11-Jan-2017 16:04 Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Here is an idea, a three strikes regime  for offences like drink driving, excessive speeding, deliberate loss of traction, dangerous driving. For the last three one strike could be earned back by successfully completing an advanced driving course or no further convictions over a ten year period. As for drink driving there should be no

 

chances to win back, three strikes and it's a permanent driving ban. If then caught driving it is mandatory 2 years imprisonment. 

 

 

Why do you have those special cases at all? Why not just have punishments for dangerous driving? Or perhaps unsafe driving? Surely the whole point of laws against drink driving and speeding and loss of traction is to make roads safe?

 

And why 3 strikes? Why even allow someone who wilfully drives dangerously to do it again? And again? Why not 2? Or 4?

 

 


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  Reply # 1701478 11-Jan-2017 16:29 3 people support this post Send private message

TimA:

 

frankv: The law requires you to ensure that your car is up to WoF standard before you drive, *not* once a week. And, since neither you nor (I assume) your charming wife nor I is a mechanic, we aren't qualified to heck our wheel bearings and whatnot so we can't ensure our cars are up to WoF standard ourselves. Your late father I assume could have done it, but I'll bet you that he didn't do it every time before he drove either.

 

 

 

Oi no bickering or bringing it to a personal level. Mike is more than capable of checking his vehicle.

 

...

 

Maybe stop trying to debunk everything the bloke says, Its rude.

 

 

The whole point of this is that Mike's position is that the law is *always* correct,  and therefore we must all obey the law at all times, no matter what. That is the only thing I'm debunking. I am using this example to show that the law *is* an ass. 

 

So, whilst I'm sure that Mike is capable of checking his vehicle, and I agree with you that a 12-monthly WoF check plus a daily walkaround is sufficient for safety, the key thing is that the *law* does not say that. The law requires a driver to ensure that their car is up to WoF standard before they drive. Consequently, *every* time that *every* person drives, they are breaking this law.

 

 


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