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1149 posts

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  # 1804934 21-Jun-2017 23:19
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6FIEND:.....

 

 

 

3) Environmental impact of disposing of EV batteries are largely unknown.  (Though more likely to be directly effecting humans through exposure to toxins etc. than effecting climate through emissions.)

 

4) Hybrids are only effective at reducing emissions if driven "appropriately". .....

 

 

- Li from EV will be reused in Solar System around New Zealand... Just make sure after it completely used up - to deplete leftover charge before disposal not to create fire hazards;

 

- Hybrids are very effective - no fumes when you start or park your car and usage is 3.6 -5.6L/100 km (do not listen to Clarkson, he is not driving hybrid, my hybrid uses 4.1l/100km)

 

As for disposing EV of Hybrid batteries - if you have failed one - I can help you to put it into good use, give it second life...





Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair 

 

 




1227 posts

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  # 1805110 22-Jun-2017 12:18
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MikeAqua:

 

tripper1000:

 

If everyone waits until EV's a perfect to buy one, the lack of demand will stall development - so go buy one, encourage development.

 

 

 

 

This I have an issue with.  I'm not paying more $ for car that is less capable and has a spartan fit out. 

 

I buy stuff that meets my expectations.  I don't buy stuff that doesn't.

 

Note I am not saying EVs are not viable and will not replace ICEVs.  They will displace most ICEVs, eventually. But at the moment they are niche.

 

Fortunately there are early adopters who love the idea of owning an EV enough to live with the many compromises required.

 

I'll swoop in later when EVs are cheaper than and just as good or better than ICEVs.

 

 

There are some interesting comments in this article about Better New Zealand Trust's recent Leading the Charge electric-vehicle (EV) road trip from Bluff to Cape Reinga:

 

"Yes, you can get from A-to-B in an EV, even if B is a really long way from A; but each part of the journey has to be painstakingly planned around that charging infrastructure and when you venture into more remote places, you have to get creative.

 

Case in point: to get all the way to the Cape, our EV fleet had to start out fully charged in the morning at Paihia, make a pitstop at the Norfolk campground in Awanui to charge up using caravan outlets, stop for another quick boost at Waitaki, then onwards to the top of the country. The smaller (by which I mean non-Tesla) EVs arrived back at the campground with minimum charge to spare. Hence the overnight stay.

 

That's why EVs are still not for everybody. To drive one on the open road you have to change your mindset, think constantly about how/where to charge and, it seems to me, regard your car as a green transportation tool rather than a pleasure.

 

Unless you're fortunate enough to have a $100k-plus Tesla with 400-600km range, pure-EV ownership remains a lifestyle choice and a slower pace of life and there's no point pretending otherwise. The cars might be fast, but as an owner you need to have time to spare.

 

If you really want to join the EV evolution (I don't really think anybody could really call it a "revolution" just yet), I suspect you already know that you're the right kind of person. You want to feel like a pioneer, you regard a long journey as an adventure and you probably love standing around talking about your EV with other EV people - because you have to do quite a bit of that at charging stations. It's likely that you get really amped up when you're talking plug-in facts and figures.

 

Nothing wrong with that. It makes you an enthusiast and any kind of enthusiasm around cars is welcome."

 

I guess this assessment fits in with your use of the term "niche". I was talking to a salesperson from Honda Cars recently and I asked why they didn't have a new EV we could buy. He said that we should wait for a couple of years before considering an EV, but in the meantime, Honda won't be stocking them!


 
 
 
 


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  # 1805397 22-Jun-2017 20:04
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one thing to point out on the range, is that if you have a 150-200km range EV this covers the vast majority of most people's daily driving. For longer trips maybe a second cheaper ICE/Hybrid car. But definitely an EV should be considered as a second city runaround car at the very least i think.

 

 

 

Of course Honda are going to say that ;)


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  # 1805471 23-Jun-2017 07:25
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keithpatton:

 

one thing to point out on the range, is that if you have a 150-200km range EV this covers the vast majority of most people's daily driving. For longer trips maybe a second cheaper ICE/Hybrid car. But definitely an EV should be considered as a second city runaround car at the very least i think.

 

 

 

What about people who don't do daily driving? I find walking and public transport perfectly adequate for short trips, so a car is only useful to me if it can do long range highway driving of at least 400km.

 

EVs will get to that stage eventually, but I think it will be another ten years before I would find one that meets my needs at a price that I can afford.


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  # 1805482 23-Jun-2017 08:32
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alasta:

 

keithpatton:

 

one thing to point out on the range, is that if you have a 150-200km range EV this covers the vast majority of most people's daily driving. For longer trips maybe a second cheaper ICE/Hybrid car. But definitely an EV should be considered as a second city runaround car at the very least i think.

 

 

 

What about people who don't do daily driving? I find walking and public transport perfectly adequate for short trips, so a car is only useful to me if it can do long range highway driving of at least 400km.

 

EVs will get to that stage eventually, but I think it will be another ten years before I would find one that meets my needs at a price that I can afford.

 

 

in your case I'm guessing you would want to keep your car charged to 50% then not charge it, then charge it to 99% the night before your drive, to keep the battery happy? where as i dump petrol and it's happy. i'm also happy since i only drive like twice a week anyway. so the planet should be happy. 

 

but yeah, i'ma interested in these carbon costs of producing electricity, producing battery, disposing battery (you know those rich people who buy things and just chuck them away after using them once ...!)





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


5385 posts

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  # 1805559 23-Jun-2017 11:06
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keithpatton:

 

one thing to point out on the range, is that if you have a 150-200km range EV this covers the vast majority of most people's daily driving. For longer trips maybe a second cheaper ICE/Hybrid car. But definitely an EV should be considered as a second city runaround car at the very least i think.

 

 

If I wanted a compact runner I could buy a near new imported Leaf for about $38k.

 

For comparison I could buy a near new Yaris for $20k and for that money I could get one that was first registered in NZ.

 

$20k buys lot of fuel and servicing, and depreciation is obviously much less on the Yaris.

 

But as it happens my partner and I bus/walk to work ...

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  # 1805572 23-Jun-2017 11:34
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I wonder if vehicle lives will be extended if they're electric?

 

With IC engines, motors and gearboxes tend to last 200-300K (or so, no need for everyone to report their outlier anecdote) which is about 10-20 years. So other stuff in the car is designed for those kinds of timeframes too... suspensions and rubber hoses and seals and seats and carpets and plastic (e.g. taillight lenses, dashboard tops) all deteriorate and get tatty and wear out.

 

In EVs, the motor could be expected to last much longer, I think? Battery lifetime is more important, but I think batteries can be replaced. So, will other car parts of EVs be redesigned for longer life?

 

My guess is no. So I think the economics of an EV will still need to be based on a 10-20 year life, with a couple of battery replacements along the way. In which case an EV would depreciate about the same rate as an IC car, with a bit of to-and-fro depending on the age of the battery.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1805583 23-Jun-2017 11:49
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frankv:

 

I wonder if vehicle lives will be extended if they're electric?

 

 

I was thinking about that just now too.

 

EVs could be expected to have a longer life in countries with stringent emission regulations -  where the main cause of vehicles being declared no long roadworthy is failing an individual vehicle emissions test.

 

In countries that salt their roads in winter I guess rust will kill EVs just as fast as it kills ICEVs.





Mike

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  # 1805587 23-Jun-2017 12:04
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MikeAqua:

 

 

 

If I wanted a compact runner I could buy a near new imported Leaf for about $38k.

 

For comparison I could buy a near new Yaris for $20k and for that money I could get one that was first registered in NZ.

 

$20k buys lot of fuel and servicing, and depreciation is obviously much less on the Yaris.

 

 

I get your point, but I'd suggest that's an unfair comparison as those two cars aren't close to equivalents in size. The Zoe is probably closer to a "compact runner", whereas the Leaf is far more versatile as it's closer to a Corolla than a Yaris:

 

(l * w in mm)

 

Yaris 4115 x  1700

 

Corolla hatch 4330 x 1760

 

Leaf 4445 x 1770

 

Case in point: we're planning on getting a Leaf at some point to replace my wife's Honda Jazz (originally selected over the Yaris as it was way roomier, Yaris sedan aside), which will give my ever-growing boys a decent amount more space than the Jazz.

 

 

 

 




1227 posts

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  # 1805619 23-Jun-2017 12:27
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MikeAqua:

 

keithpatton:

 

one thing to point out on the range, is that if you have a 150-200km range EV this covers the vast majority of most people's daily driving. For longer trips maybe a second cheaper ICE/Hybrid car. But definitely an EV should be considered as a second city runaround car at the very least i think.

 

 

If I wanted a compact runner I could buy a near new imported Leaf for about $38k.

 

For comparison I could buy a near new Yaris for $20k and for that money I could get one that was first registered in NZ.

 

$20k buys lot of fuel and servicing, and depreciation is obviously much less on the Yaris.

 

But as it happens my partner and I bus/walk to work ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can now buy a really good second-hand all-electric imported BMW i3 for between $38,000 to $45,000. For example, there's one on TradeMe at the moment that's only done about 7900km for $44,900. And for just $38,000 there's one that has only done about 16,500 km.

 

I think I would prefer an i3 to a Leaf, but it has to be taken into account that the i3's referred to above are the all-electric old model without a range extender which have a range of about 120km. However, if you want to pay between $45,000 - $58,000, you can get an old model i3 with a range extender so you get a range of about 250km overall.

 

So, why buy a Leaf when you can get an i3 for not much more?

 

 


5385 posts

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  # 1805621 23-Jun-2017 12:34
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jonathan18:

 

MikeAqua:

 

 

 

If I wanted a compact runner I could buy a near new imported Leaf for about $38k.

 

For comparison I could buy a near new Yaris for $20k and for that money I could get one that was first registered in NZ.

 

$20k buys lot of fuel and servicing, and depreciation is obviously much less on the Yaris.

 

 

I get your point, but I'd suggest that's an unfair comparison as those two cars aren't close to equivalents in size. The Zoe is probably closer to a "compact runner", whereas the Leaf is far more versatile as it's closer to a Corolla than a Yaris:

 

(l * w in mm)

 

Yaris 4115 x  1700

 

Corolla hatch 4330 x 1760

 

Leaf 4445 x 1770

 

Case in point: we're planning on getting a Leaf at some point to replace my wife's Honda Jazz (originally selected over the Yaris as it was way roomier, Yaris sedan aside), which will give my ever-growing boys a decent amount more space than the Jazz.

 

 

Corolla ICE near new $25k

 

Mazda 3 SP25: 4470mm x 1745mm

 

We bought ours for just under $40k (price of a good-as-new leaf), with three years servicing

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  # 1805635 23-Jun-2017 12:58
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I guess in answer to the original question-

 

Yes I would when:

 

     

  1. Access to charging and time taken to impart a decent charge is (close to) comparable to the convenience of filling with petrol
  2. Range is reliably and consistently on par with a "reasonable" petrol car - I usually get 550km out of a tank on mine with mixed driving...much more on pure highway.
  3. Pricing is competitive with similarly specced petrol cars
  4. They are no longer all pug ugly. (Tesla and i8 are exceptions to the rule but are stinkingly expensive)

 

Point 4 is partially in jest and the Model 3 may go a long way to providing a marriage of points 3 and 4, but most pure electric vehicles (not hybrids) are hideous. Electric versions of existing cars are Ok I suppose - EGolf for example...thought the range on those is crap.





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  # 1805641 23-Jun-2017 13:11
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jonathan18:

 

MikeAqua:

 

If I wanted a compact runner I could buy a near new imported Leaf for about $38k.

 

 

I get your point, but I'd suggest that's an unfair comparison as those two cars aren't close to equivalents in size. The Zoe is probably closer to a "compact runner", whereas the Leaf is far more versatile as it's closer to a Corolla than a Yaris:

 

 

Yeah... but what if what you want *is* a small car? What EV can you get that's smaller than a Leaf, but has (say) 300km range? 

 

From my POV, I'm commuting in a second-hand Mondeo at a cost of about $6K/year for fuel and depreciation for about 20,000kms/year. Where can I get an EV (any size) for that price? Hopefully I *might* find one in 5-10 years.

 

FWIW, we also have a "big" car for trips and carting people and stuff around, so I'd be happy with a small single-seater EV. No luggage space needed, but safe, waterproof, with a good heater (no motorbikes!). In my case, 100K range at open-road speeds would be just enough.  Anything in my price bracket?

 

 


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  # 1805667 23-Jun-2017 13:59
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but:

 

As I understand it no-one is selling pure EV cars new in NZ at the moment?





Mike

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  # 1805668 23-Jun-2017 14:00
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MikeAqua:

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but:

 

As I understand it no-one is selling pure EV cars new in NZ at the moment?

 

 

You are indeed wrong.  Hyundai will sell you a brand new Ioniq, today, if you want one. edit: you can also buy Tesla locally.


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