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654 posts

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  # 1821337 12-Jul-2017 15:29
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MikeAqua:

 

How about a series hybrid  - turbine powered generators, battery and electric motors.

 

Few working parts in a non-thrust turbine.

 

Plenty of heat ...

 

 

Turbine powered cars have been made in the past. Chrysler did it way back in the sixties, and more recently Jaguar very nearly with the C-X75 concept

 

Chrysler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car

 

Jaguar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

 

 

 

Hybrids, PHEV's and EV's have there place, but so so so much more can be done to the ICE. Freevalve Technology (basically a ICE engine without a camshaft) and the Direct Drive gearbox have both been developed by Swedish supercar maker Koenigsegg.

 

Freevalve: http://www.freevalve.com/technology/freevalve-technology/

 

Direct Drive transmission: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-how-the-koenigsegg-regera-hypercar-drives-without-a-gearbox/

 

Koenigsegg have had a old SAAB 9-5 running the freevalve engine for a while, and a Chinese manufacturer were\are going to put the technology into a production car.

 

SAAB 9-5 Freevalve http://jalopnik.com/what-its-like-to-ride-in-a-car-with-the-camless-engine-1529865968

 

Qoros http://koenigsegg.com/qoros-debuts-driveable-freevalve-qamfree-engine-at-2016-guangzhou-motor-show/

 

 


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  # 1821366 12-Jul-2017 16:38
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I don't doubt there is still room for improvement on ICE cars but why go to so much trouble and expense to keep a dinosaur alive? With the same level of investment, much more can be achieved with new technologies that are designed for the future.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1821384 12-Jul-2017 17:19
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Comes down to opportunity, cost and saleability. Electric cars are still a bit expensive and range still a bit limited, so there's an opportunity for someone to bring out an ICE improvement if they think the cost of R&D will make a ROI before it all gets gazzumped by EV.

 

 


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  # 1821617 13-Jul-2017 08:40
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MikeAqua:

 

How about a series hybrid  - turbine powered generators, battery and electric motors.

 

Few working parts in a non-thrust turbine.

 

Plenty of heat ...

 

 

Williams International make small gas turbines. There are two problems:

 

     

  1. Cheap in a turbine still means $100K
  2. Turbines burn a lot of fuel

 

 


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  # 1821622 13-Jul-2017 08:45
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frankv:

 

     

  1. Turbines burn a lot of fuel

 

 

 

Yep and that's just when they're keeping themselves going at idle!

 

They come into their own when run at 100% as is the case with aviation use. So when running a generator to charge batteries they could be operated in the most efficient mode. They're a bit it work to spin up and get going though. 

 

Turbines without aviation certification probably way cheaper.

 

 


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  # 1821650 13-Jul-2017 09:44
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frednz:

Geektastic:


 


When there is one that charges in 5 minutes, does 800km with 5 people and their luggage on board and has the size and ability of a Land Rover Discovery, I shall certainly consider it.



I hope you're still in your 20's because I suspect you won't be needing to consider such an EV anytime soon!


 



I wish I was still in my 20's! Sadly that was the 90's.







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  # 1821656 13-Jul-2017 10:05
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Geektastic:
frednz:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When there is one that charges in 5 minutes, does 800km with 5 people and their luggage on board and has the size and ability of a Land Rover Discovery, I shall certainly consider it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you're still in your 20's because I suspect you won't be needing to consider such an EV anytime soon!

 

 

 

 

 



I wish I was still in my 20's! Sadly that was the 90's.

 

Oh, that's a pity!

 

Just come across this Wall Street Journal article (dated 12 July 2017) which is well worth reading:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/electric-cars-are-the-future-not-so-fast-1499873064

 

The article includes a discussion of the effect of tax credits on EV buyer behaviour (NZ Govt please take note).

 

It also discusses something EV enthusiasts don't want to know, that is, the amount of "carbon dioxide per mile" that EVs can be responsible for (i.e. the generation of electricity is not entirely free from producing its own emissions).

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1821660 13-Jul-2017 10:14
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frankv:

 

     

  1. Turbines burn a lot of fuel

 

 

 

Not on topic really, but reminded me of a clip on youtube:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM7PK5d2Yug

 

Jay Leno (american media personality and vehicle nut), has a jet engine powered motorbike. The jet turbine is from a helicopter. It sounds awesome starting up - worth watching the clip just for that alone. Not sure if its mentioned in this clip but hard heard him tell a story about idiots pulling up really close behind at the lights. Because of the heat that comes out the back of the bike it has the ability to melt plastic bumpers at close range. He said he has started to smell hot plastic as the lights go green.





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  # 1821876 13-Jul-2017 13:47
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frednz:

 

It also discusses something EV enthusiasts don't want to know, that is, the amount of "carbon dioxide per mile" that EVs can be responsible for (i.e. the generation of electricity is not entirely free from producing its own emissions).

 

Better here than in the US - they burn a lot of coal to produce electricity.

 

We have 80% of our electricity generated by renewables and it would be higher off-peak when most home charging would be happening.


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  # 1821907 13-Jul-2017 14:21
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Thought this might be of interest a few months old, I stumbled across it today

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/92170249/the-day-i-drove-the-nismo-leaf-rc-electric-racing-car





Mike

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  # 1821932 13-Jul-2017 14:54
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Rikkitic:

 

I don't doubt there is still room for improvement on ICE cars but why go to so much trouble and expense to keep a dinosaur alive? With the same level of investment, much more can be achieved with new technologies that are designed for the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people (I include myself in this group) like the sound of an engine revving, and this technology may keep ICE cars around a little bit longer.

 

A case in point, I've watched clips of Formula E, and I'm sorry, but I'd rather watch grass grow, they're dull, soulless, whirring, humming boxes on wheels. Granted the current crop of F1 cars aren't exactly as nice sounding as the cars of the early 2000's, but they have a bit of crackle and pop about them.

 

And what's really driving the EV revolution? I'm guessing EU rules around emissions have something to do with it, so isn't better to consider multiple solutions rather than putting all our eggs in one basket?


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  # 1822012 13-Jul-2017 16:07
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

And what's really driving the EV revolution? I'm guessing EU rules around emissions have something to do with it, so isn't better to consider multiple solutions rather than putting all our eggs in one basket?

 

 

Great comment.  Not too long ago, the EU's one basket for the foreseeable future was compact turbo diesels.  The pendulum is now swinging back toward petrol.  Even in recreational and small commercial boats petrol is pushing out diesels.

 

It shows promising technology may turn out to be interim technology.

 

I think lithium batteries in cars (and maybe battery EVs in general) will turn out to be interim technology.   I'm backing ubiquitous element like hydrogen and carbon





Mike

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  # 1822057 13-Jul-2017 17:19
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

Some people (I include myself in this group) like the sound of an engine revving, and this technology may keep ICE cars around a little bit longer.

 

A case in point, I've watched clips of Formula E, and I'm sorry, but I'd rather watch grass grow, they're dull, soulless, whirring, humming boxes on wheels. Granted the current crop of F1 cars aren't exactly as nice sounding as the cars of the early 2000's, but they have a bit of crackle and pop about them.

 

And what's really driving the EV revolution? I'm guessing EU rules around emissions have something to do with it, so isn't better to consider multiple solutions rather than putting all our eggs in one basket?

 

 

EU rules?  What are you on about, this is about the entire world and the huge looming crisis caused by anthropogenic climate change.

 

Racing - completely different situation.  For driving on the road we already have petrol cars that you can barely hear the engine on when driving at 100kph.

 

 

 

MikeAqua:

 

I think lithium batteries in cars (and maybe battery EVs in general) will turn out to be interim technology.   I'm backing ubiquitous element like hydrogen and carbon

 

 

I'll happily bet against you!

 

Carbon - burning carbon means pumping out CO2 which is a greenhouse gas that is causing a lot of trouble for the planet we live on.

 

Hydrogen - dead end waste of time, maybe there will be a few cars running on hydrogen for a short time but that stuff is dead in the water for several reasons.

 

 

 

My money is on battery electric vehicles - currently with lithium based batteries but if better battery chemistries are developed then it could change.  BEVs may have a small market share today but in ten years time it will be a very different story.

 

For NZ - petrol needs to be imported but we can make electricity ourselves.

 

Infrastructure - there is no infrastructure for hydrogen but I've already got electricity delivered to my house continuously!


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  # 1822080 13-Jul-2017 18:38
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WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

Some people (I include myself in this group) like the sound of an engine revving, and this technology may keep ICE cars around a little bit longer.

 

 

 

 

Didn't some of the first modern electric cars have soundtracks to warn people they were coming? You could always play a recording of a V8 to impress the girls.

 

 





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  # 1822094 13-Jul-2017 19:20
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Rikkitic:

 

WyleECoyoteNZ:

 

Some people (I include myself in this group) like the sound of an engine revving, and this technology may keep ICE cars around a little bit longer.

 

 

 

 

Didn't some of the first modern electric cars have soundtracks to warn people they were coming? You could always play a recording of a V8 to impress the girls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have owned a good number of V8's over the years and it had nothing to do with impressing the opposite gender.  The V8 is a very good power plant and not just for the sound or power, it is a very balanced engine, efficient a pleasure to drive. They accelerate smoothly, cruise smoothly and have power that means you climb well, engine brake well and can pass with a great reduced exposure to danger time.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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