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  # 1776139 5-May-2017 11:00
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I'm about to get a Leaf, the range is (more than) enough for 99% of our driving needs, and the TCO over 5-6 years (based on our driving habits of just over 21kkm/year) should be about the same as a Prius, maybe slightly more should we have to replace the battery at that point, but with most of that cost being at the back end.  Good chance we will replace before then anyway.


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  # 1776877 6-May-2017 16:03
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cadman:

 

RUKI:

 

When others see the "problem", can I suggest a solution? How about this simple one:

 

Stop creating useless "jobs in the office". Let smart people who are disciplined enough, motivated enough and geared for success - let them work from home.

 

I've been saying (and doing) this for years. I enjoy driving but I hate traffic. People that don't need to be in the office all day every day simply shouldn't be. Not that I believe in AGW in the slightest but simply because it's a resource wasting exercise having people commuting to places to do things they can realistically do from home. Think of all the oil saved - all the man hours saved - all the stress from not sitting in traffic every day gone.

 

 

I've worked in the office and worked at home.....both for years.

 

Working at home tends to lead to a long term breakdown of any sense of team and the relations with co-workers become virtually non-existent. There is a real price to paid for this. Working from home one or two days / month is no big issues, but I worked at home for 95% of the time for 3 years and by the time I resigned.....in my head.....I'd left ages ago. I had to remind myself I needed to resign. 

 

I'm not alone.....this is why many companies don't let people work from home. They aren't wrong.....

 

As for failing to recognise human-caused climate change....I don't know how you can miss it now. It's HUGE. It's moving to flat-earther territory.....being able to avoid the science and the consequences - especially in the Arctic - now requires a certain obtuseness that tends to be limited to people who talk and can't listen much.

 

 





____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


 
 
 
 


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  # 1776943 6-May-2017 19:53
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No intention to buy an EV.

 

I like burning petrol, the sound of the V8 is just beautiful.

 

One day there won't be any fossil fuels. But when that day comes I won't be in a job anyway.




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  # 1776956 6-May-2017 20:16
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RUKI:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

 

 

.... I think I still prefer the i3 simply because its pure electric range of 120km - 200km is far superior and you also have the option of a range extender backup to give you that extra 130km of range.

 

 

It is personal choice. Did not get how "claimed"  200km is superior vs 700km real :-) and how spending 50+ K NZD vs 20K is smarter for the smaller car which BMWi3 is.

 

I've played a lot of battery operated toys made in Japan when I was a kid, hence as a grown-up I am not interested in toys but only in practical things :-)

 

 

The difference here is that the latest BMW i3's 200km is a "pure electric" range, but the 700km you quote is no doubt predominantly achieved from a petrol engine.

 

I suppose a hybrid with 3km pure electric range is a good start and a plug-in hybrid with up to 40km pure electric range is even better, but the predominant use is still unfortunately likely to be from the use of a petrol engine.

 

With the BMW i3, the pure electric range of up to 200km would work for most of my running around and the extra 120km range that is available from the range extender would only be used when I am on a longer trip.

 

So, the BMW i3 is really in a class of its own in that the pure electric range is now greater than the range that is available from the range extender! And the i3 can also be purchased without a range extender if you are happy with the 200km pure electric range. I don't think any other plug-in hybrid has these characteristics?

 

 


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  # 1777026 7-May-2017 08:07
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alasta:

 

old3eyes:

 

alasta:

 

Buying an EV isn't the only way to achieve this. Walking and public transport, the latter of which will soon be fully electrified in Wellington, works for most of my daily travel. 

 

So no, I don't feel guilty about using my diesel vehicle on odd occasions when an EV wouldn't have sufficient range anyway.

 

 

What public transport is going to be fully electric in Wellington, I thought the trolley buses were being scrapped??

 

 

Both the trolley and diesel buses are going to be replaced with battery equipped electric buses over the coming years. Apparently the technology has advanced enough to keep them running all day.

 

 

I hear that those batteries on their new buses last about 4 years and will cost something like $60 ~ 100 grand to replace so they will retrofit them with diesel engines. Forget pure electric city buses in the  near future.  Better to keep the trolleys.





Regards,

Old3eyes


gzt

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  # 1777027 7-May-2017 08:25
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For a bus that's a lot of Kms. Depends on the overall economics.

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  # 1777068 7-May-2017 10:22
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Linuxluver:

 

cadman:

 

RUKI:

 

When others see the "problem", can I suggest a solution? How about this simple one:

 

Stop creating useless "jobs in the office". Let smart people who are disciplined enough, motivated enough and geared for success - let them work from home.

 

I've been saying (and doing) this for years. I enjoy driving but I hate traffic. People that don't need to be in the office all day every day simply shouldn't be. Not that I believe in AGW in the slightest but simply because it's a resource wasting exercise having people commuting to places to do things they can realistically do from home. Think of all the oil saved - all the man hours saved - all the stress from not sitting in traffic every day gone.

 

 

I've worked in the office and worked at home.....both for years.

 

Working at home tends to lead to a long term breakdown of any sense of team and the relations with co-workers become virtually non-existent. There is a real price to paid for this. Working from home one or two days / month is no big issues, but I worked at home for 95% of the time for 3 years and by the time I resigned.....in my head.....I'd left ages ago. I had to remind myself I needed to resign. 

 

I'm not alone.....this is why many companies don't let people work from home. They aren't wrong.....

 

 

That sounds like the ideal situation to me -  working completely without the office politics and usual drivel that accompanies it - I'm not there to socialise anyway - I'm there to do a job. I've unfortunately never had any such disconnection issues in the 18 years I've been doing it - I probably spent 25% of my time at a client's location.

 

Linuxluver:

 

As for failing to recognise human-caused climate change....I don't know how you can miss it now. It's HUGE. It's moving to flat-earther territory.....being able to avoid the science and the consequences - especially in the Arctic - now requires a certain obtuseness that tends to be limited to people who talk and can't listen much.

 

 

I'm not seeing anything there aside the usual religious fanatic style rhetoric, but you forgot to pop in a "scientific consensus" or "99% of all scientists agree" and perhaps some UN references because of course they're the foundation of all science. Oh, and try to slip in a "runaway climate change" in there too, which defies the observable laws of thermodynamics just so everyone knows not to take you seriously.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1777145 7-May-2017 13:35
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I would love an EV, and in fact would be headed towards a leaf for our second car in a few months when we will need two vehicles, however, SWMBO says no to an EV, and for the initial price out of the gate, even the cheap ones are still too expensive.
We simply can't afford to pay $10k or so for a second vehicle (as a runaraound) when we could get a reasonable small corolla or similar that ticks all the boxes for about $5k.

As for in the future when we will need to upgrade the "bigger" car, an EV simply wouldn't suit. Having to stop every 100km/200km etc or so for half an hour or more to charge the car is just stupid. Why anyone would tout long range travelling in NZ as doable in a smaller range EV just beggars belief. A 200km drive that would take roughly 2 hours would become 2.5 to 3 hours, with small kids and a reason to be travelling this makes no sense to me.

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  # 1777156 7-May-2017 14:25
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cadman:

 

I'm not seeing anything there aside the usual religious fanatic style rhetoric, but you forgot to pop in a "scientific consensus" or "99% of all scientists agree" and perhaps some UN references because of course they're the foundation of all science. Oh, and try to slip in a "runaway climate change" in there too, which defies the observable laws of thermodynamics just so everyone knows not to take you seriously.

 

 

I think you meant "catastrophic runaway climate change"


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  # 1777172 7-May-2017 15:01
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Galileo's denouncers and the proponents of the Flat Earth society hear you.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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  # 1777208 7-May-2017 16:50
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Loismustdye: I would love an EV, and in fact would be headed towards a leaf for our second car in a few months when we will need two vehicles, however, SWMBO says no to an EV, and for the initial price out of the gate, even the cheap ones are still too expensive.
We simply can't afford to pay $10k or so for a second vehicle (as a runaraound) when we could get a reasonable small corolla or similar that ticks all the boxes for about $5k.

As for in the future when we will need to upgrade the "bigger" car, an EV simply wouldn't suit. Having to stop every 100km/200km etc or so for half an hour or more to charge the car is just stupid. Why anyone would tout long range travelling in NZ as doable in a smaller range EV just beggars belief. A 200km drive that would take roughly 2 hours would become 2.5 to 3 hours, with small kids and a reason to be travelling this makes no sense to me.

 

Why does SWMBO say no to an EV?

 

There seems to be a consensus that pure EVs are great for running around town and then charged up overnight at home.

 

So, because you like the concept of an EV, do you think a plug-in hybrid with a pure electric range of up to say, 40km, might be better for your "bigger" car than a 100% ICE?

 

And a BMW i3 with a range extender can be refuelled with petrol every 120km or so in a very short time because you only need to fill a 9 litre tank. This then you gives you a further 120km of range without the need to charge up the battery.

 

But, if you prefer a "pure electric" vehicle as your "bigger" car, just for interest, what range would you want and what would you be prepared to pay for it?

 

 

 

 


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  # 1777233 7-May-2017 17:39
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frednz:

Loismustdye: I would love an EV, and in fact would be headed towards a leaf for our second car in a few months when we will need two vehicles, however, SWMBO says no to an EV, and for the initial price out of the gate, even the cheap ones are still too expensive.
We simply can't afford to pay $10k or so for a second vehicle (as a runaraound) when we could get a reasonable small corolla or similar that ticks all the boxes for about $5k.

As for in the future when we will need to upgrade the "bigger" car, an EV simply wouldn't suit. Having to stop every 100km/200km etc or so for half an hour or more to charge the car is just stupid. Why anyone would tout long range travelling in NZ as doable in a smaller range EV just beggars belief. A 200km drive that would take roughly 2 hours would become 2.5 to 3 hours, with small kids and a reason to be travelling this makes no sense to me.


Why does SWMBO say no to an EV?


There seems to be a consensus that pure EVs are great for running around town and then charged up overnight at home.


So, because you like the concept of an EV, do you think a plug-in hybrid with a pure electric range of up to say, 40km, might be better for your "bigger" car than a 100% ICE?


And a BMW i3 with a range extender can be refuelled with petrol every 120km or so in a very short time because you only need to fill a 9 litre tank. This then you gives you a further 120km of range without the need to charge up the battery.


But, if you prefer a "pure electric" vehicle as your "bigger" car, just for interest, what range would you want and what would you be prepared to pay for it?


 


 



Wife doesn't like them, simple as that, she doesn't trust the tech at this stage and would feel more comfortable with petrol.
At this stage I'm pushing the proverbial up a hill trying to get one at this point.
Plug in hybrid would probably be OK.
However, a BMW i3 is certainly not what I would call a cheap car to buy.

As for a bigger car, something under $30k (certainly would never buy new and personally would never spend $30k on a vehicle) would have to be the sweet spot and range would need to be 300+ km or more. This likely won't happen anytime soon.

Bang for buck wise a larger car for our use would still need to be ICE, taking into account specs, size and initial outlay.

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  # 1777345 7-May-2017 19:43
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frednz:

 

.... With the BMW i3, the pure electric range of up to 200km would work for most of my running around ...

 

 

A "lot of people" would agree with your choice of BMWi3, i.e.:

 

a) Those who have plenty of cash to burn and price is never a question (BMWi3 price = price of two brand new Prius C)

 

b) Those who are looking for a small CBD commuter as BMWi3 is small and easy to park (for that reason I had Toyota Starlet 1998 for 14 years as it was the smallest Toyota hatch capable of parking almost anywhere and also capable of moving bulky cargo like 240L fridge (will not be possible with BMWi3), Starlet was purchased for 1/10 of BMWi3 price and never failed during those years, sold for ~$2.2 in perfect condition as it still had value. BMWi3 will have zero value after 17 years, but that does not matter for people with plenty of cash to burn, I guess.

 

c) Those who would prefer servicing at the dealership and not DIY (BMW diagnostic scanners and parts are way more expensive than Toyota. I DIY Toyota, always did, have diagnostic equipment, some proprietary - my own development.

 

As those 3 reasons are quite straightforward BMWi3 should be flying out of the door at the dealership near me...

 

I was told by boys at Toyota across the road from Renault (where BMWi3 is on display) they have sold out all hybrids.

 

P.S. ... Old add: "We have horses for everyone. For big boys we have big ones, for small boys we have pony, and for those who have never been riding a horse, we have horse which has never been ridden on"... :-)


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  # 1777445 7-May-2017 22:55
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shk292:

 

cadman:

 

I'm not seeing anything there aside the usual religious fanatic style rhetoric, but you forgot to pop in a "scientific consensus" or "99% of all scientists agree" and perhaps some UN references because of course they're the foundation of all science. Oh, and try to slip in a "runaway climate change" in there too, which defies the observable laws of thermodynamics just so everyone knows not to take you seriously.

 

 

I think you meant "catastrophic runaway climate change"

 

 

Ah, yes. I forgot to add the doom element.


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  # 1777447 7-May-2017 22:58
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Rikkitic:

 

Galileo's denouncers and the proponents of the Flat Earth society hear you.

 

 

Straight out of Gore's play book.


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