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  Reply # 1777640 8-May-2017 12:00
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I dont think so. If history has taught me anything, it is that I WILL lose the power cord.





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  Reply # 1778047 8-May-2017 20:07
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Linuxluver:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

Incidentally, I think most drivers charge to only 80% capacity at charging stations, so this also needs to be taken into account.

 

Despite the results of this demanding test, I would quite like to own the $60,000 Ioniq and I think its "normal" 200km range would suit about 90% of my driving needs.

 

 

For daily use 80% is a guide...but when you need to travel further absolutely charge it to 100% and then drive it. Just don't leave it sitting around for days. 

Much of the battery 'lore' is based on Nissan LEAF Gen 1 (2011 and 2012 models) experience. Later versions of the battery (with different chemistry) are more robust and appear to be much more tolerant if charged to the top when needed....and used very soon after (like....in the morning).

 

The Ioniq is an impressive car. I have just driven up from Bluff to Auckland with two of them. The other night an Ioniq drove from Tauranga to the Sky Tower in Auckland on a single charge. A second Ionig drove from the Sky Tower in Auckland to Tauranga....again on a single charge. I just happened to be in the parking area when he pulled in to our hotel in Tauranga.

If I tried that in my LEAF, I think I'd get from Tauranga to about the BP at Drury...and be gasping. Technically "Auckland".....but 25-30km short of the CBD. I say this because a new 30kWh LEAF owner recently drove from Tauranga to Auckland....and made it to that BP station.....and asked if they could help her charge as she was almost flat. They unplugged a freezer for her and she plugged in. She was on her way in an hour. I don't push it that far.  But good to know I could.  Much easier to charge for 15 mins at Thames and then hoon home. 

 

I think it may be stories like these that push some potential EV owners towards considering hybrids rather than pure EVs! I wouldn't buy a pure EV unless the range is at least 300km, but I can understand why EV enthusiasts don't seem to mind the challenge of coaxing the last 1km out of the battery!

 

The Renault Zoe Z.E. 40 with its 41 kWh battery is apparently capable of a range of 300km (186 miles) and I am considering this vehicle as well as a second-hand BMW i3 with range extender.

 

I know that second-hand Zoe's with 41kWh are available for around $40,000, but it's a pity that you can't buy a new one direct from Renault for much the same price. But at $40,000, a Zoe would be beyond the budget of many people and I guess it will take a long time before we can get a new pure EV with 300k range for around $30,000? Until this happens, owning a decent new pure EV is for the rich and that's a shame!

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1778081 8-May-2017 20:29
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RUKI:

 

frednz:

 

.... With the BMW i3, the pure electric range of up to 200km would work for most of my running around ...

 

 

A "lot of people" would agree with your choice of BMWi3, i.e.:

 

a) Those who have plenty of cash to burn and price is never a question (BMWi3 price = price of two brand new Prius C)

 

b) Those who are looking for a small CBD commuter as BMWi3 is small and easy to park (for that reason I had Toyota Starlet 1998 for 14 years as it was the smallest Toyota hatch capable of parking almost anywhere and also capable of moving bulky cargo like 240L fridge (will not be possible with BMWi3), Starlet was purchased for 1/10 of BMWi3 price and never failed during those years, sold for ~$2.2 in perfect condition as it still had value. BMWi3 will have zero value after 17 years, but that does not matter for people with plenty of cash to burn, I guess.

 

c) Those who would prefer servicing at the dealership and not DIY (BMW diagnostic scanners and parts are way more expensive than Toyota. I DIY Toyota, always did, have diagnostic equipment, some proprietary - my own development.

 

As those 3 reasons are quite straightforward BMWi3 should be flying out of the door at the dealership near me...

 

I was told by boys at Toyota across the road from Renault (where BMWi3 is on display) they have sold out all hybrids.

 

P.S. ... Old add: "We have horses for everyone. For big boys we have big ones, for small boys we have pony, and for those who have never been riding a horse, we have horse which has never been ridden on"... :-)

 

 

Believe me, I don't have "plenty of cash to burn" and price certainly is very relevant! But you can buy a second-hand i3 for around $40k - $50k, which is quite similar to what you have to pay to get a decent second-hand Renault Zoe with the latest 41kWh battery.

 

The reason I like the BMWi3 is because of the overall concept behind the way it's built and that you have the choice of either a pure EV or one with a range extender that charges the battery to give you an extra 120-130km of range. No other plug-in hybrid can give you 180km of pure electric range and the option of filling a 9 litre petrol tank to get an extra 130km.

 

Frankly, I think the price of a BMWi3 is worth at least the price of two brand new Prius C's, they are totally different vehicles and the i3 IMHO really is in a different class altogether. Don't get me wrong, I like the Prius C, it's a nice vehicle, but it's not one that an EV enthusiast would go for.

 

The fact that the i3 may have zero value after 17 years is of no relevance to me because any EV owner knows that it pays to change up to the latest model as often as you can afford to. In any event, BMW gives owners the option of replacing the battery to the latest available and if I was considering owning one for 17 years, I would have upgraded the battery many times thus avoiding a zero second value!

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1778290 9-May-2017 10:20
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cadman:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Galileo's denouncers and the proponents of the Flat Earth society hear you.

 

 

Straight out of Gore's play book.

 

 

To the ICE dinosaurs on this thread: tdgeek just posted a talk by an auto industry insider that you might want to read. Here is an excerpt:

 

Autonomous cars: In 2018 the first self driving cars will appear for the public. Around 2020, the complete industry will start to be disrupted. You don't want to own a car anymore. You will call a car with your phone, it will show up at your location and drive you to your destination. You will not need to park it, you only pay for the driven distance and can be productive while driving. Our kids will never get a driver's licence and will never own a car. 

 

It will change the cities, because we will need 90-95% less cars for that. We can transform former parking spaces into parks. 1.2 million people die each year in car accidents worldwide. We now have one accident every 60,000 miles (100,000 km), with autonomous driving that will drop to one accident in 6 million miles (10 million km). That will save a million lives each year. 

 

Most car companies will probably become bankrupt. Traditional car companies try the evolutionary approach and just build a better car, while tech companies (Tesla, Apple, Google) will do the revolutionary approach and build a computer on wheels. 

 

Many engineers from Volkswagen and Audi; are completely terrified of Tesla.

 

The rest is here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=214381

 

[edited for emphasis]

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1778294 9-May-2017 10:33
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There are some fascinating predictions in that paper and I'm sure that in large cities, a lot of it will become true.

 

But do you really believe that a kiwi kid living in a rural community in a backwater of NZ is going to have all his transport needs satisfied by self driving cars via a smartphone app?  There are countless uses of private cars (ICE or EV) that will be very difficult to repace with the self-drive, shared owenership model.  I'm willing to put money on my prediction that both my kids (current age 11 & 13) will have a driving licence and drive an ICE vehicle before they turn 20.  Any takers?


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  Reply # 1778302 9-May-2017 10:51
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While its probably getting a little off topic, I am really looking forward to self driving vehicles.

 

If you stand on any road in Auckland (or take the bus and look at drivers), the number of drivers with a phone in their hand is astonishing! At least they could give up any pretence of being in control and just let the car do the job - we would all be safer!

 

Also - its now looking more of a real possibility that you might not need to own a car in the near future. Just text one to come and pick you up and drop you off when you need it. At the very least many families could drop the second car. Has to be good for road congestion. I suppose you could agrue you can do that with UBER, but if the vehicle is self drive it should be even cheaper if you dont have to pay the driver.





Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  Reply # 1778341 9-May-2017 11:37
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frednz:

 

 

 

...... any EV owner knows that it pays to change up to the latest model as often as you can afford to.....

 

 

Keep dreaming, while 15000 people in New Zealand have chosen hybrids... (official stats of number of registered hybrids)

 

As for "every EV owner", that is unfortunately not quite right. A number of people admitted they have purchased their EV stretching themselves to the limit following the modern trend. Some took a loan, they have difficulties to serve. Some even expanded their mortgage to buy an EV. Majority of EV owners are just consumers, with little understanding of the bigger picture of what they got themselves into.

 

Let's come back to review the choices of cars in 5, 10 & 15 years. :-)

 

Here is another relevant joke:

 

- "I am dreaming of visiting Paris.... again..."

 

- "Have you already been there before?"

 

- "No, not yet, but I have already been dreaming about it once.."

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1778345 9-May-2017 11:44
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Rikkitic:

 

cadman:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Galileo's denouncers and the proponents of the Flat Earth society hear you.

 

 

Straight out of Gore's play book.

 

 

To the ICE dinosaurs on this thread: tdgeek just posted a talk by an auto industry insider that you might want to read. Here is an excerpt:

 

Autonomous cars: In 2018 the first self driving cars will appear for the public. Around 2020, the complete industry will start to be disrupted. You don't want to own a car anymore. You will call a car with your phone, it will show up at your location and drive you to your destination. You will not need to park it, you only pay for the driven distance and can be productive while driving. Our kids will never get a driver's licence and will never own a car. 

 

It will change the cities, because we will need 90-95% less cars for that. We can transform former parking spaces into parks. 1.2 million people die each year in car accidents worldwide. We now have one accident every 60,000 miles (100,000 km), with autonomous driving that will drop to one accident in 6 million miles (10 million km). That will save a million lives each year. 

 

Most car companies will probably become bankrupt. Traditional car companies try the evolutionary approach and just build a better car, while tech companies (Tesla, Apple, Google) will do the revolutionary approach and build a computer on wheels. 

 

Many engineers from Volkswagen and Audi; are completely terrified of Tesla.

 

The rest is here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=214381

 

[edited for emphasis]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about the population that lives away from the cities how do they get about. Request a Uber and wait 3 hours? What about going to the beach or out to say Cape Palliser? If we only have 5% of the vehicles we have now it will be I need to go to the Doctor in June 2024 hmmm its May 2022 I may have left it too long to book a car. 

 

 

 

VW engineers have more things to worried about than Tesla.





Mike
IT Management Consultant, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1778625 9-May-2017 17:32
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RUKI:

 

frednz:

 

 

 

...... any EV owner knows that it pays to change up to the latest model as often as you can afford to.....

 

 

Keep dreaming, while 15000 people in New Zealand have chosen hybrids... (official stats of number of registered hybrids)

 

As for "every EV owner", that is unfortunately not quite right. A number of people admitted they have purchased their EV stretching themselves to the limit following the modern trend. Some took a loan, they have difficulties to serve. Some even expanded their mortgage to buy an EV. Majority of EV owners are just consumers, with little understanding of the bigger picture of what they got themselves into.

 

Let's come back to review the choices of cars in 5, 10 & 15 years. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have a link / reference to the source of this stunning piece of research about EV owners?

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1778639 9-May-2017 18:04
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MikeB4:

 

What about the population that lives away from the cities how do they get about. Request a Uber and wait 3 hours? What about going to the beach or out to say Cape Palliser? If we only have 5% of the vehicles we have now it will be I need to go to the Doctor in June 2024 hmmm its May 2022 I may have left it too long to book a car. 

 

VW engineers have more things to worried about than Tesla.

 

 

Grandpa's lament: What about the population that lives away from the cities? Are they supposed to rely on them new-fangled auto-mobile motor car thingies that belch smoke and need fuel and break down? What if they need to go to the beach or some place a long way away? Where do they get petrol? What about repairs? Nothing will ever beat a good, reliable horse for getting around. 

 

Those who stand with their backs to the future have nothing to worry about until it overtakes them.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1778651 9-May-2017 18:15
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Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

What about the population that lives away from the cities how do they get about. Request a Uber and wait 3 hours? What about going to the beach or out to say Cape Palliser? If we only have 5% of the vehicles we have now it will be I need to go to the Doctor in June 2024 hmmm its May 2022 I may have left it too long to book a car. 

 

VW engineers have more things to worried about than Tesla.

 

 

Grandpa's lament: What about the population that lives away from the cities? Are they supposed to rely on them new-fangled auto-mobile motor car thingies that belch smoke and need fuel and break down? What if they need to go to the beach or some place a long way away? Where do they get petrol? What about repairs? Nothing will ever beat a good, reliable horse for getting around. 

 

Those who stand with their backs to the future have nothing to worry about until it overtakes them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So no answer then





Mike
IT Management Consultant, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1778658 9-May-2017 18:32
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My answer would be that your concerns are based on lack of imagination. At the dawn of the motorcar, no-one could have seen how things would turn out. Arguments against cars at that time included the difficulty of getting fuel on long trips and reliability of the engines and other mechanical parts. No-one then foresaw what a modern car would be like, or that there would be three service stations at every intersection. Your objections are based on lack of vision, not real obstacles. When the time comes I'm sure you will be able to get to the beach or the doctor with no problem at all. It is an evolutionary process.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1778665 9-May-2017 18:49
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Rikkitic:

 

My answer would be that your concerns are based on lack of imagination. At the dawn of the motorcar, no-one could have seen how things would turn out. Arguments against cars at that time included the difficulty of getting fuel on long trips and reliability of the engines and other mechanical parts. No-one then foresaw what a modern car would be like, or that there would be three service stations at every intersection. Your objections are based on lack of vision, not real obstacles. When the time comes I'm sure you will be able to get to the beach or the doctor with no problem at all. It is an evolutionary process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will ask again, can you answer my question?





Mike
IT Management Consultant, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1778684 9-May-2017 19:30
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I did answer it. Quit being obtuse.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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