Lexus for Lawyers and Toyota C-HR for Human Resource ppl

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jonathan18

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# 1796413 8-Jun-2017 09:19

MikeAqua:

85kW is not a lot considering the 1500kg kerb weight.

I bet it's sluggish.

One search revealed the AWD version (which I assume will be a bit slower) does 0-100 in 11.4 seconds, which certainly isn't speedy.

Looks-wise, though, it's nice to see Toyota trying something a bit different, even if it doesn't come off completely. I usually find Toyotas just so boring (86 aside) - TBH, I don't think there's a single Toyota I'd elect to buy (yes, I will not buy a car I think is unattractive; well, apart from a Leaf, but in that case its specific function overcomes any form concerns!).

Those small rear windows are certainly a popular trend amongst modern cars, I'm assuming partly for safety reasons but also for the current dominant aesthetic. Even in a conventional car like our Mazda 6 the relatively small rear windows means visibility for my nine-year-old son is poor, so much so we'll dig out the booster seat to get him a better view when going on long trips.

Bung

2890 posts

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# 1796451 8-Jun-2017 09:48

Scott3:
tripper1000:
I personally wouldn't spend money on a fake SUV or anything with 1200cc's and four wheels.

Direct injection in petrol engines more efficient, a little more powerful, and produce a lot more torque at low RPM's (more diesel like torque charastics). The latter is particularly good for drivability.

In terms of emissions, they do produce more smog causing fumes, but the main issue is fine particulates definitely are an issue (same as diesel particulates, they small enough to enter the bloodstream through the lungs)

I'm not a fan of the mini suv's (except decent off roading ones like the Suzuki Jimny :).

Will be interesting to see how the engine choice goes down with the target demographic.

Regarding 1200cc and 2 wheels, motorcycles have had a free pass on emissions.

Speed reading, it looks like petrol engine particulates and NOx will soon be regulated Euro 6 Sept 2017??. VW & Mercedes have already announced particulate filters and the changes required to catalytic converters for NOx are already available.

I'm looking at new vehicle choices. Brand A 1600 or 1400 turbo 40% more torque same l/100km. Brand B 2000 uses 3-5 l more per 100km same performance as brand A. Brands C & D soon to replace existing 2l engines with smaller units. It looks like the manufacturers have already made the choice.

RUKI

1144 posts

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# 1796458 8-Jun-2017 09:59

jonathan18:

...... I don't think there's a single Toyota I'd elect to buy

......a conventional car like our Mazda 6......

OP was about associations when it comes to vehicle 's name. Fun fact - Russians pronounce "Masda" similar to "Must Die", no surprise those who speak English in Russia never choose that brand :-)

As for Toyota - being driving them for over 30 years. Very reliable cars, diagnostics and repair of those is a breeze for a DIY.

old3eyes

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# 1796509 8-Jun-2017 10:43

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RUKI:

jonathan18:

...... I don't think there's a single Toyota I'd elect to buy

......a conventional car like our Mazda 6......

OP was about associations when it comes to vehicle 's name. Fun fact - Russians pronounce "Masda" similar to "Must Die", no surprise those who speak English in Russia never choose that brand :-)

As for Toyota - being driving them for over 30 years. Very reliable cars, diagnostics and repair of those is a breeze for a DIY.

I've found over the past 30 years Toyota and Mazda have been the most reliable vehicles I've owned. Some people here seem to look down at the likes of Toyota as it's not snobby enough for them..

Regards,

Old3eyes

jonathan18

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# 1796516 8-Jun-2017 10:59

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old3eyes:

I've found over the past 30 years Toyota and Mazda have been the most reliable vehicles I've owned. Some people here seem to look down at the likes of Toyota as it's not snobby enough for them..

For me it's not a snob thing, anyway - in my view, Toyotas are just boring; boring to look at, and not terribly exciting or engaging to drive. I also think they're highly priced relative to their spec (I mean for how many years did most Toyotas come with steel wheels when nearly all the competition was offering alloys, even on low-spec models?).

I test-drove a Camry hybrid before settling on a Mazda 6; while I like the technology in it and its related fuel efficiency, the looks and handling didn't do it for me (I hear the latest model is better in this regard). At least Mazdas make involving cars - one of the comments I read on the C-HR was its lack of driver engagement (which is such a common complaint now with so many new cars, particularly around dead steering).

It all comes down to what you want out of a car - for many, for whom reliability and resale value are key components, then Toyota is a natural fit. For many, it's simply a must that the car originates from Europe. And, for me: good handling, good safety specs [edit:, good economy] and good looks are what's required...

old3eyes

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# 1796602 8-Jun-2017 13:03

jonathan18:

old3eyes:

I've found over the past 30 years Toyota and Mazda have been the most reliable vehicles I've owned. Some people here seem to look down at the likes of Toyota as it's not snobby enough for them..

For me it's not a snob thing, anyway - in my view, Toyotas are just boring; boring to look at, and not terribly exciting or engaging to drive. I also think they're highly priced relative to their spec (I mean for how many years did most Toyotas come with steel wheels when nearly all the competition was offering alloys, even on low-spec models?).

I test-drove a Camry hybrid before settling on a Mazda 6; while I like the technology in it and its related fuel efficiency, the looks and handling didn't do it for me (I hear the latest model is better in this regard). At least Mazdas make involving cars - one of the comments I read on the C-HR was its lack of driver engagement (which is such a common complaint now with so many new cars, particularly around dead steering).

It all comes down to what you want out of a car - for many, for whom reliability and resale value are key components, then Toyota is a natural fit. For many, it's simply a must that the car originates from Europe. And, for me: good handling, good safety specs [edit:, good economy] and good looks are what's required...

Yep the Mazda 6 is a great car so is the CX5.

Regards,

Old3eyes

jonathan18

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# 1796627 8-Jun-2017 13:44

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old3eyes:

Yep the Mazda 6 is a great car so is the CX5.

... and the CX9 may the one car that can convert my wife to considering an SUV!

She acknowledged it looks good, which is the first time I've ever heard my wife say that about an SUV, and she's keen on checking it out when I get around to taking one for a test drive.

Scott3

560 posts

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# 1797528 10-Jun-2017 00:17

Bung:

Speed reading, it looks like petrol engine particulates and NOx will soon be regulated Euro 6 Sept 2017??. VW & Mercedes have already announced particulate filters and the changes required to catalytic converters for NOx are already available.

I'm looking at new vehicle choices. Brand A 1600 or 1400 turbo 40% more torque same l/100km. Brand B 2000 uses 3-5 l more per 100km same performance as brand A. Brands C & D soon to replace existing 2l engines with smaller units. It looks like the manufacturers have already made the choice.

Direct injection petrol engines currently have a free pass on particulate emissions. As you say, future emissions standards will set limits. Easy enough to fix with particulate filters (same tech as in modern diesel cars), but automakers are reluctant to do so unless they are forced. (add minor cost / complexity / weight / exhaust back pressure)

Your right, engine downsizing (typically with a turbo to keep market expected power figures) is all the rage in the auto industry at the moment.

When you look at the spec sheet it is a win all around. Similar power, lighter engine (for faster acceleration & better weight balance for handling), Smaller engine block (bigger crumple zones), lower rated fuel consumption.

Of course there are downsides to this as well.

Biggest is that you really need to stay off the boost (RPM under 2800 or so) to realise that fuel saving. The engines are designed to give good fuel economy in the standard test that don't consider things like stoplight drag races, hauling heavy trailers etc. The little turbo engines will sure drink fuel if you thrash them.
They are also a lot more highly stressed (high boost pressure) that engines of old.
Much more complex, and typically less resilient to missed maintenance
Some need premium fuel

That's not to say that they are a bad purchase (especially if you have a service plan and warranty).

RUKI

1144 posts

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# 1797683 10-Jun-2017 12:07

jonathan18:

........

I test-drove a Camry hybrid before settling on a Mazda 6; while I like the technology in it and its related fuel efficiency, the looks and handling didn't do it for me (I hear the latest model is better in this regard). .....

When I saw that only 1/3 of the rear seat in Camry Hybrid was folding down - it was a no go for me.... Looks like that limited folding seat was aimed at Golfers - i.e. nothing else will fit in there....

In regards to the newer Camry Hybrid vs previous model - I am getting feedback from people who use my Analyser in Australia to fix Camry batteries. They say longevity in the older model is better for unknown reason. They suspect battery cooling was designed differently.

FYI Camry has 34 modules in the pack making it harder to rebuild (You need more modules).

My Prius C (aka Aqua in Japan) has only 20 modules in the pack (vs 40 in Lexus GS450) making rebuild in the future an easy task (for me).

I have no data yet about battery used in Prius C-HR though.

There are few not so popular hybrids on our roads with non-standard modules in there packs - which hard to source...

Toyota / Lexus Hybrid and EV Battery Expert Battery Test & Repair

alasta

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# 1797712 10-Jun-2017 14:19

Scott3:

Direct injection petrol engines currently have a free pass on particulate emissions. As you say, future emissions standards will set limits. Easy enough to fix with particulate filters (same tech as in modern diesel cars), but automakers are reluctant to do so unless they are forced. (add minor cost / complexity / weight / exhaust back pressure)

Particulate filters have been discussed here at length previously. My diesel Mazda3 only gets used for highway driving and the particulate filter causes no bother at all, but Jonothan has noted that the particulate filter in his Mazda6 with the same engine is a major nuisance given that he drives mainly around town.

At the moment people who want to do urban driving have the option of avoiding this problem by buying a petrol powered vehicle, but that will no longer be the case if manufacturers start fitting particulate filters to petrol cars. It might even push those types of users towards electric cars.

Dunnersfella

3561 posts

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# 1797749 10-Jun-2017 16:25

MikeAqua:

85kW is not a lot considering the 1500kg kerb weight.

I bet it's sluggish.

Yup - heavier than its CX3 competitor. You'd really have to be sold on its aesthetics or never want to accelerate in a hurry.

Bung

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# 1797751 10-Jun-2017 16:50

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alasta:
Particulate filters have been discussed here at length previously. My diesel Mazda3 only gets used for highway driving and the particulate filter causes no bother at all, but Jonothan has noted that the particulate filter in his Mazda6 with the same engine is a major nuisance given that he drives mainly around town.

At the moment people who want to do urban driving have the option of avoiding this problem by buying a petrol powered vehicle, but that will no longer be the case if manufacturers start fitting particulate filters to petrol cars. It might even push those types of users towards electric cars.

Petrol engine filters aren't expected to be the same problem diesel ones are

"In addition to the lower particle concentrations, the soot emitted from GDI vehicles oxidizes much faster than diesel soot; studies have measured burnout rates 2.5 times higher than those of diesel soot. This all points to insignificant soot storage in the GPF, even after prolonged operation under real world driving conditions. As a result, no extreme heat release due to soot oxidation is expected so thermal durability is not considered an issue.

The low soot loading also allows for the use of more compact—and less expensive—filters from diesel applications due to the lower volume and in the case of catalyzed GPFs the lower precious metal content. While in diesel vehicles, the volume of the filter is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the engine displacement, the envisaged GPF systems have much smaller size, equal or smaller to the engine swept volume.

Improvements in the acoustic function of the gasoline particulate filter make it possible to reduce muffler volume, helping to reduce backpressure, increase performance, reduce weight and save cost."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/03/20150331-tenneco.html

ilovemusic

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# 1797871 11-Jun-2017 00:45

has anyone mentioned this ugly new toyota is also hamstrung with a cvt transmission ?

Scott3

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# 1798107 11-Jun-2017 17:05

RUKI:

I have no data yet about battery used in Prius C-HR though.

There are few not so popular hybrids on our roads with non-standard modules in there packs - which hard to source...

Toyota NZ aren't selling the hybrid variant of the Toyota C-HR here, But it is available with a 1.8L atkinson cycle engine based hybrid drivetrain in other markets. I imagine we will see a few of them here from japan as used imports.

Here is a review:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/toyota/toyota-c-hr-hybrid-crossover-review/

In the UK at least, it is marketed as the "Toyota C-HR Hybrid" rather than under the Prius brand, although it is likely it would be fitted with a slightly modified prius drivetrain.

ilovemusic: has anyone mentioned this ugly new toyota is also hamstrung with a cvt transmission ?

Given that performance cars like the Subaru Levorg are selling with exclusively CVT transmissions, I don't think the selection will present to much of an issue to buyers of a 85kW compact suv with a low (600kg) tow rating. (I.E. NOT buyers who are focused on performance, handling, or heavy towing)

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