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4223 posts

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  # 1808972 29-Jun-2017 14:22
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GeekRay:

 

Talkiet:

 

 

 

So you're in favour of transferring the RUC tax burden away from the well off that can afford electric cars and onto the poor who will continue to use their mid 90's corollas for some time to come? 

 

 

I am not in favour of any option yet; it was a simple question to assess a potential solution. If that was/is a workable option, it might reduce the RUC for all instead of a specific group, since transportation is one of our essential needs.

 

 

 

Also, why don't we work out something to make EVs affordable for everyone, so it's not a symbol or badge for those well-off?

 

 

Because they are costlier to produce. They're so clearly going to be a significant part of the motoring future that subsidies don't even make rational sense anymore. Prices will come down as demand increases (probably scaling with improved battery technology and price reductions)

 

But wanting electric vehicles to be cheaper today isn't realistic. Market forces will do it over time.

 

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


127 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1808993 29-Jun-2017 15:09
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Subsidies won't make sense in the future but probably do now. 

 

 

 

Manufacturers need the scale to bring down unit price and require capital for their R&D to improve battery technologies. Without the push from government, it might take longer for greater penetration of EVs to take place. 

 

 

 

And I do hope this can happen sooner than later.


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1808998 29-Jun-2017 15:26
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As soon as there is enough Electric cars to affect the tax revenue coming in from Diesel - RUC's  & Petrol you can bet that there is a quick change to make electric cars part of road user charges as well.


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  # 1809088 29-Jun-2017 17:34
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Coil:

 

I would laugh if we put a tax on using an electric car as they dont generate as much revenue through tax collection.
How ever they still use power which is taxed. 

 

 

If all vehicles changed to electric overnight there would be no money for roading.  So, the government would have send all the money spent on the power grid to the roading department.

 

But, fortunately we wouldn't need the roads because there would be no electricity to charge the electric vehicles.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1809250 29-Jun-2017 22:09
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That's something that gets forgotten in the rush to electric vehicles. Who is going to fund the significant upgrades that are going to be needed for the power network when all these ev's are being charged.

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Master Geek


  # 1809274 29-Jun-2017 22:40
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larknz: That's something that gets forgotten in the rush to electric vehicles. Who is going to fund the significant upgrades that are going to be needed for the power network when all these ev's are being charged.


Moving off topic but like most people with EVs we charge our car from midnight to 6am in the morning when the network load is relatively low. Even if the whole country changed to EVs I think the additional electricitrity requirements are only about 10%. It is also likely in the near future solar and home battery banks will become cost effective meaning that probably won't see much effect at all. Electricity demand is already relatively flat as everything is becoming more efficient.

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Master Geek

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  # 1809278 29-Jun-2017 23:02
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larknz: That's something that gets forgotten in the rush to electric vehicles. Who is going to fund the significant upgrades that are going to be needed for the power network when all these ev's are being charged.

 

You might be surprised by the number of EVs that are only charged in its owner's garage.  


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1809308 30-Jun-2017 07:07
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That's fine while users are happy with slow chargers and ev's are a niche market, but once they become mainstream and everyone wants fast chargers in the supermarket car park the power networks will struggle.

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Master Geek


  # 1809319 30-Jun-2017 08:07
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larknz: That's fine while users are happy with slow chargers and ev's are a niche market, but once they become mainstream and everyone wants fast chargers in the supermarket car park the power networks will struggle.

 

Slow charging overnight is convenient, cheap, and good for the battery so will likely remain how many EVs are charged.

 

But even as fast charger use increases it won't cause much of an issue. They generally supply up to 50 kW with it decreasing as the battery gets full. With the current plan of 100 fast chargers by 2018 if they are all used simultaneously and supplying full power would then use 5 MW which is less than 0.1% of total current NZ electricity demand of ~6200 MW. Even if a much larger network of fast chargers gets rolled out and 1000 are charging simultaneously at 50 kW are still at less than 1%.

 

These loads are nothing compared to what you get in industry.


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1809355 30-Jun-2017 08:38
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I'm not talking about the generation capacity, but the capacity of the local lines company network.

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Master Geek


  # 1809358 30-Jun-2017 08:44
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larknz: I'm not talking about the generation capacity, but the capacity of the local lines company network.

 

 

 

Yes, and these increases should be no issue for local lines company networks. Industrial and commercial loads have much greater transient peaks in demands. I also expect that during the early morning and evening peaks, where the local lines come under the most stress, people are more likely to be driving or at home rather than fast charging.


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  # 1809401 30-Jun-2017 09:44
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larknz: I'm not talking about the generation capacity, but the capacity of the local lines company network.

 

If most charging is done post the evening peak, I cannot see what the issue would be,

 

Between 21:00-22:00 and 05:00-06:00 there is plenty of lines capacity, (compared to the peak morning and evening loads)

 

National Grid assumptions flow to local grids, as most customers are on local connections- ( those with their own GXPs tend to run 24/7 anyway)

 

https://www.transpower.co.nz/sites/default/files/publications/resources/Chapter%204%20Demand%20Assumptions.pdf


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1809427 30-Jun-2017 10:03
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It's not the slow off peak chargers that are the problem but the fast chargers which will be used during the day. Put half a dozen 50KVA fast chargers in a supermaret car park or rural tourist spot and the network will struggle.

Webhead
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  # 1809454 30-Jun-2017 10:39
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You mean something like this?

 

World’s largest Tesla Supercharger station makes its way to Norway

 

Yeah, that would be completely impossible.... ;)





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Master Geek

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  # 1809462 30-Jun-2017 10:53
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And don't forget that technologies are evolving too. Will see how the charging needs change when wireless charging road becomes common sense.

 

Wireless charging road 


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