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302 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2287733 2-Aug-2019 14:54
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Linuxluver:
Jeeves:

 

I continue to wonder how charge net makes a profit. Each charger looks to cost somewhere between $50-80k to install. They charge about 25c kw/h - let's say the electricty cost is half that, so gross profit is say 12c kw/h. If the average charge session is say 20kw/h, thats around $2.40 profit per charge. Each charge station would need over 20,000 charges before the capex is paid off. If we average i dunno, 5 charges per day - that's 4,166 days, or 11 years!

 

 

 

That's not including depreciation, maintenance, staff, IT costs, billing blah blah blah.

 

 

 

I can only assume my figures are way off or they are getting some decent subsidies, as that's a pretty ordinary pay back period.

 



They will be paying commercial power rates. My understanding is these are well below residential power rates per kWh. Steve West has said the 25c/kWh is the cost (aggregated) and the 25c / minute is the 'profit'.

I've also seen them comment they are looking to be profitable in 7 years. We're about 3 yesterday in at this point.

The West's appear to have the resources to support this. We all really should be grateful they are prepared to make this kind of investment so kickstart EV adoption. Yes, there has been some money from government for chargers in more remote locations. Yes, they have received some money from other private companies (BMW -/+ $100,000).

But at the moment, with just under 15,000 EVs, most of which charge at home, no one is getting rich here.

 

 

 

My work brings me a fair amount of understanding of power rates - 12c kw/h would be on the low side - it'll probably average 15-18 across the country. That's not really including all the other crap the lines companies throw on top - so the net cost of 25c wouldn't surprise me...

 

Don't get me wrong - I think what the Wests are doing is very noble considering their proven successful entrepreneurial track record, they could probably be making better money in other avenues. It's fantastic that we had someone who had the means to stand up so quickly to help with EV adoption. 

 

 


148 posts

Master Geek


  # 2291746 7-Aug-2019 15:21
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Linuxluver:
The reality is most people will charge at home most of the time. I certainly do. . That's 90% of the cost of energy accounted for. Road trips will involve paid charging. The cheapest way to go is charger to 70% (300km in a Kona) and then drive 225km (ish) and charge to 70% again. This is the fastest and cheapest way to roll. Why pay more to charge shower?
It's an adjustment thing. I do it all the time. You get used to it. It's just different. Then comibine the total cost of home charging abd roads trips and the average price per km is very low compared to ICE.

 

I realise that what you've described is the pragmatic approach.  After buying the Kona I found out that I can't park close enough to home to charge off my own electricity supply (best night rate in HB $0.19) and so have only used public chargers since the car was new.  My average rate for July (easy to calculate because all charging is billed from ChargeNet) was $0.46.  At that number I'm still ahead of an ICE car, but if RUCs are added at the current rate then I'll be even with a petrol car that does 6.5 l/100km.  That of course doesn't contribute to the extra $40k upfront nor the extra $550/y insurance that is only fractionally helped by $200/y lower servicing cost.

 

The wide span of private v.s. public charging costs in combination with RUCs inevitably means that the EV market will remain, as it started, with those who can charge at home inexpensively and drive mostly within their home range.  Government costing estimates that use $0.15/unit (ECCA) have misappropriated the private domestic rates of householders, without mentioning the associated caveats such as only charging at night, etc.  In my opinion, government costing for creating policy should be done only with open-market charging costs.  The cost benefits of private electricity rates are the property of the householders who negotiated those rates in return for abiding with the T&Cs.

 

 


 
 
 
 




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Uber Geek

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  # 2291958 7-Aug-2019 23:30
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KiwiME:

Linuxluver:
The reality is most people will charge at home most of the time. I certainly do. . That's 90% of the cost of energy accounted for. Road trips will involve paid charging. The cheapest way to go is charger to 70% (300km in a Kona) and then drive 225km (ish) and charge to 70% again. This is the fastest and cheapest way to roll. Why pay more to charge shower?
It's an adjustment thing. I do it all the time. You get used to it. It's just different. Then comibine the total cost of home charging abd roads trips and the average price per km is very low compared to ICE.


I realise that what you've described is the pragmatic approach.  After buying the Kona I found out that I can't park close enough to home to charge off my own electricity supply (best night rate in HB $0.19) and so have only used public chargers since the car was new.  My average rate for July (easy to calculate because all charging is billed from ChargeNet) was $0.46.  At that number I'm still ahead of an ICE car, but if RUCs are added at the current rate then I'll be even with a petrol car that does 6.5 l/100km.  That of course doesn't contribute to the extra $40k upfront nor the extra $550/y insurance that is only fractionally helped by $200/y lower servicing cost.


The wide span of private v.s. public charging costs in combination with RUCs inevitably means that the EV market will remain, as it started, with those who can charge at home inexpensively and drive mostly within their home range.  Government costing estimates that use $0.15/unit (ECCA) have misappropriated the private domestic rates of householders, without mentioning the associated caveats such as only charging at night, etc.  In my opinion, government costing for creating policy should be done only with open-market charging costs.  The cost benefits of private electricity rates are the property of the householders who negotiated those rates in return for abiding with the T&Cs.


 



Can you explain your power situation at home more? I installed convenient charging points at both houses I have been regularly charging at. How far away are you from your power? I've used 30 metre outdoor extension cords to charge from a 240v / 10amp power point. On one occasion I used two. Ideally, you would get a 32amp /7kw Type 2 socket installed and use an appropriate cable. Is 10 metres long enough?

The issue your having isn't really anything to do with the car. It's about your own preparations to meet your own requirements.
Here's what I use. This cost me about $1000.. Worth every penny. My LEAF can charge at 6.6kw.




____________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, use my referral code to get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


2178 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2292248 8-Aug-2019 13:02
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When I first got my leaf I charged at 8A at th end of 20m of builders (thicker) extension cord. Bought a plastic box and cut holes in it so the connection between extension cord and EVSE were weather tight.

Later I got a 16A caravan plug place on side of my house.

I wouldnt advocate an EV for someone who couldn't home charge or slow charge at work as hassle/economics of only use commercial chargers isn't there.


1107 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2292361 8-Aug-2019 14:56
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Expanding on the "Builders (thicker) extension cord" (and not that I am advocating using an extension cord), but if you happen to be in the market for one, check the copper cross-sectional area before buying. If it's not printed on the packaging it is often embossed on the wire. There are 2 grades available 1.0mm2 and 1.5mm2. For long sustained loads, such as heaters, (and EV's) you want 1.5mm2 only as it carries the current better, has less voltage drop and produces less heat. Sometimes (such as when on special) they are no dearer than the 1.0mm2 leads. Of course with any extension lead uncoil them and don't cover with thermal insulation such as mat's etc, so that the heat can dissipate without building up to plastic melting temperatures.


177 posts

Master Geek

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  # 2293462 10-Aug-2019 12:19
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Good to see the Tirau ChargeNet stations up and running although one of the two is faulted - has taken a long time. There's hope for Bulls yet now showing end of August.


485 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2305247 24-Aug-2019 14:01
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Tesla charger in Whanganui

I noticed this charger (in Drews Avenue Whanganui, down by the river-front) this morning

 

 

It's labelled as "Tesla Vehicle Charging", but it's not on the Tesla.com or charge.net.nz maps

 

 

 

Ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: less enormous picture


 
 
 
 


506 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2305251 24-Aug-2019 14:06
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PolicyGuy:

 

Tesla charger in Whanganui

I noticed this charger (in Drews Avenue Whanganui, down by the river-front) this morning

 

 

 

It's labelled as "Tesla Vehicle Charging", but it's not on the Tesla.com or charge.net.nz maps

 

 

 

Ideas?

 

 

It might be new and hasn't got onto the maps yet. Although it says Tesla charging, you should be able to use it to charge any vehicle that has a Type 2 plug.


2178 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2305361 24-Aug-2019 15:55
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Plugshare has a type 2 charger on corner of Drew's and Moutua Quay. Is that the one ?

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2305364 24-Aug-2019 16:08
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afe66: Plugshare has a type 2 charger on corner of Drew's and Moutua Quay. Is that the one ?

 

Yes, that is the one




5528 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2305527 24-Aug-2019 22:33
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Obraik:

It might be new and hasn't got onto the maps yet. Although it says Tesla charging, you should be able to use it to charge any vehicle that has a Type 2 plug.



I've been told the Tesla destination chargers (like this one) have two settings. One allows any car that can change on Type 2 and th other only allows Tesla cars to use them.




____________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, use my referral code to get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


506 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2305707 25-Aug-2019 13:37
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Linuxluver:
Obraik:

It might be new and hasn't got onto the maps yet. Although it says Tesla charging, you should be able to use it to charge any vehicle that has a Type 2 plug.



I've been told the Tesla destination chargers (like this one) have two settings. One allows any car that change in Type 2 and they either only allows Tesla cars to use them.

It depends on the car tbh. The Tesla chargers have two modes "normal" and "legacy". Some older cars will only work with it if it's in Legacy mode. Newer cars don't care what mode it's set to and will charge on them without issue (some take some time to start charging in this mode, tho). Generally if there are two in one spot then one will be in legacy mode and the other will be normal...this is because the Roadster only works with Legacy mode.

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Uber Geek

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  # 2305908 26-Aug-2019 09:01
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New chargenet rapid charger live in Pac n Save south Dunedin.

Makes 3 in Dunedin and one in Mosgil.



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Uber Geek

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  # 2306361 26-Aug-2019 17:46
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afe66: When I first got my leaf I charged at 8A at th end of 20m of builders (thicker) extension cord. Bought a plastic box and cut holes in it so the connection between extension cord and EVSE were weather tight.

Later I got a 16A caravan plug place on side of my house.

I wouldnt advocate an EV for someone who couldn't home charge or slow charge at work as hassle/economics of only use commercial chargers isn't there.



I've seen people go to Sylvia Park for a family meal and charge for free for a few hours on the AC chargers they have there (about 13 in all - 10 x Type 1 and 3 x Type 2 and of those 7 are 25amp and 6 are 32amp). You can get a 20kWh in 3 hours (with anything but a Japanese LEAF - which only AC charges at 3.3kw) if you have dinner and catch a movie. Or just sit in the car and read a book. Seen it.





____________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, use my referral code to get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


2178 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2306367 26-Aug-2019 17:58
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Yes but those who live in other parts of the country are much more limited, with the exception of chch possibly.

 

You can probably use charging placed like that in auckland but I think realistically you would have to be keen.

 

ie in Dunedin there are 2 non rapid charger options in the whole city. One is warehouse and not free, the other is in a parking building which you have to pay to park and closes at 1900..

 

If you have to ask me how to charge etc, I think ev arent yet for you.

 

One bad experience wipes out many good ones.


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