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DarthKermit
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  #1882009 11-Oct-2017 16:16
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Bumpety-bump.

 

ManawatÅ« Gorge shortlist of alternative routes revealed 

 

Now narrowed down to four options, some more expensive than others, all will take years to build.


mattwnz
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  #1882037 11-Oct-2017 18:12
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It is amazing how quickly they used to build things before all the red tape and compliance stuff. Especially as there is far more machinery and automation these days.  There is all this free labour in prisons they could be using as well, which would do a lot of those people a lot of good in getting out there and doing something productive.




frankv
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  #1882078 11-Oct-2017 21:21
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At a public meeting last month, transport agency regional transport systems manager Ross I'Anson said the aim was to have an alternative route complete within 3-4 years.

 

The cheapest shortlisted option is the 13.8 kilometre Saddle Rd upgrade, which is expected to cost between $300-$400m and take between 5-6 years to complete.

 

The longest of the four shortlisted options, a 19.2km route south of the gorge, is the most expensive and will take 6-7 years to complete at a cost of $450-550m.

 

 

So, if the "the aim was to have an alternative route complete within 3-4 years" then both of those are out.

 

Which leaves only 2 options: north or south of the Saddle Rd. I wonder how much they cost, and what their expected timeframes are? Or maybe they've given up on that aim?

 

 

 

 

 

 


DarthKermit
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  #1882081 11-Oct-2017 21:31
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Official info from NZTA 

 

This gives cost and time estimates, plus reasons why the other nine options were eliminated.


Geektastic

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  #1882175 11-Oct-2017 23:38
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So hands up anyone who thinks a similar problem would take the same time to resolve in, say, Switzerland? Or Japan? Or Germany?

 

 

 

A lot of the reasons for dismissal were rather woolly: a government should not face "difficulties in getting consent" when carrying out infrastructure projects in the national interest. Cost and effectiveness are IMV the only two grounds for dismissing alternatives in a situation like this.






Geektastic

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  #1882176 11-Oct-2017 23:40
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mattwnz:

 

It is amazing how quickly they used to build things before all the red tape and compliance stuff. Especially as there is far more machinery and automation these days.  There is all this free labour in prisons they could be using as well, which would do a lot of those people a lot of good in getting out there and doing something productive.

 

 

 

 

It's embarrassing but true that the Victorians could have built this faster using gangs of road navvies swinging picks and shovels.








mattwnz
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  #1882179 12-Oct-2017 00:11
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Geektastic:

 

So hands up anyone who thinks a similar problem would take the same time to resolve in, say, Switzerland? Or Japan? Or Germany?

 

 

 

A lot of the reasons for dismissal were rather woolly: a government should not face "difficulties in getting consent" when carrying out infrastructure projects in the national interest. Cost and effectiveness are IMV the only two grounds for dismissing alternatives in a situation like this.

 

 

 

 

The government can make the rules if they want. It is essentially a natural disaster  situation with a key piece of infastructure, that is costing NZ millions/billions.


Lastman
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  #1882226 12-Oct-2017 07:35
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Geektastic:

So hands up anyone who thinks a similar problem would take the same time to resolve in, say, Switzerland? Or Japan? Or Germany?


 


A lot of the reasons for dismissal were rather woolly: a government should not face "difficulties in getting consent" when carrying out infrastructure projects in the national interest. Cost and effectiveness are IMV the only two grounds for dismissing alternatives in a situation like this.



https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/14/germany-has-a-crumbling-infrastructure-problem.html

Geektastic

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  #1882273 12-Oct-2017 08:59
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Lastman:
Geektastic:

 

So hands up anyone who thinks a similar problem would take the same time to resolve in, say, Switzerland? Or Japan? Or Germany?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of the reasons for dismissal were rather woolly: a government should not face "difficulties in getting consent" when carrying out infrastructure projects in the national interest. Cost and effectiveness are IMV the only two grounds for dismissing alternatives in a situation like this.

 



https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/14/germany-has-a-crumbling-infrastructure-problem.html

 

 

 

It may do. My point was that it would not take them years to fix something that they decided to fix. FFS the spectacular Millau Viaduct in France only took 3 years to build.






Geektastic

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  #1882277 12-Oct-2017 09:02
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mattwnz:

 

Geektastic:

 

So hands up anyone who thinks a similar problem would take the same time to resolve in, say, Switzerland? Or Japan? Or Germany?

 

 

 

A lot of the reasons for dismissal were rather woolly: a government should not face "difficulties in getting consent" when carrying out infrastructure projects in the national interest. Cost and effectiveness are IMV the only two grounds for dismissing alternatives in a situation like this.

 

 

 

 

The government can make the rules if they want. It is essentially a natural disaster  situation with a key piece of infastructure, that is costing NZ millions/billions.

 

 

 

 

My point exactly. All this whining about getting consent is rubbish. If the government wants to do it, they give themselves consent via Parliament and then use compulsory purchase to bulldoze any local whiners.






MikeB4
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  #1882286 12-Oct-2017 09:12
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Geektastic:

 

mattwnz:

 

Geektastic:

 

So hands up anyone who thinks a similar problem would take the same time to resolve in, say, Switzerland? Or Japan? Or Germany?

 

 

 

A lot of the reasons for dismissal were rather woolly: a government should not face "difficulties in getting consent" when carrying out infrastructure projects in the national interest. Cost and effectiveness are IMV the only two grounds for dismissing alternatives in a situation like this.

 

 

 

 

The government can make the rules if they want. It is essentially a natural disaster  situation with a key piece of infastructure, that is costing NZ millions/billions.

 

 

 

 

My point exactly. All this whining about getting consent is rubbish. If the government wants to do it, they give themselves consent via Parliament and then use compulsory purchase to bulldoze any local whiners.

 

 

You believe that the Government should not abide by the law? hmmm where that could lead makes me shudder.


elpenguino
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  #1882316 12-Oct-2017 09:51
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Geektastic:

 

old3eyes:

 

If the rail loading gauge wasn't an issue we could put all those trucks on to rail flatcars as they do in the US and rail them from point A to B. 

 

 


Assuming that there was a rail line between A and B of course...!

 

We could also do what they do (or used to do) in Scotland a lot - shift goods around the outside by sea to a port that is closer to the destination. Of course this is relatively slow, so not suitable for everything but a coaster service shifting containers around would reduce the traffic loading and would not get stuck in roadworks or indeed cause roadworks etc etc.

 

Maybe they do this now - I don't know.

 

 

Yes, this service is available now.

 

http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:283853/mmsi:512423000/imo:9319557/vessel:SPIRIT_OF_CANTERBURY

 

 

 

Problem is palmerston north is not equipped with a port for some reason  :-)

 

Apparently PN is a bit of a logistics hub. I heard years ago one of the big super market chains had their warehouse there.

 

 





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


elpenguino
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  #1882319 12-Oct-2017 09:58
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mattwnz:

 

It is amazing how quickly they used to build things before all the red tape and compliance stuff. 

 

 

Manawatu gorge was built in those days and look how it turned out.

 

It's better to pause, consider all the options and make a rational decision that will result in the best long term outcome.

 

In a hundred years' time no one will remember the time it was closed for a couple of years but they will appreciate having a well engineered design.

 

 





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


frankv
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  #1882322 12-Oct-2017 10:03
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Problem is palmerston north is not equipped with a port for some reason  :-)

 

Surely a canal to the Manawatu River mouth at Foxton can't be that difficult? After all, in Victorian times they dug hundreds of miles of canals.

 

Or go back to plan A (as in Victorian times) that Foxton be the central hub of the Manawatu, and redevelop the port there?

 

Perhaps I'll propose to Wanganui to redevelop its port. Should be good for a few million in consultancy fees and investor dollars.

 

 


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