Car boom looks like last hurrah for petrol power: Electric vehicles look set to take over?

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Car boom looks like last hurrah for petrol power: Electric vehicles look set to take over?

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shk292

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#1832414 27-Jul-2017 17:35

tdgeek:

Id say the reliability of EV engine over ICE is substantial? Far less moving parts. Thats probably more risk than EV centric risks?

Seriously? Do people have anxiety that their ICE won't start or will break down. I can remember the last time my car randomly broke down through an engine fault - it was 1989, and a faulty oil pressure sensor meant that I stopped the car as a precaution. The last British-made car I bought

The only other time I've been unable to use my car was through a flat battery

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#1832426 27-Jul-2017 18:02

shk292:

tdgeek:

Id say the reliability of EV engine over ICE is substantial? Far less moving parts. Thats probably more risk than EV centric risks?

Seriously? Do people have anxiety that their ICE won't start or will break down. I can remember the last time my car randomly broke down through an engine fault - it was 1989, and a faulty oil pressure sensor meant that I stopped the car as a precaution. The last British-made car I bought

The only other time I've been unable to use my car was through a flat battery

Well, they are inherently more complicated. The older the car, or the more mileage, many components wear or fail. ICE is reliable, Im just saying I would expect EV to be more reliable, less to go wrong. Not that I know much at all about an EV engine. What have I had go wrong? Bugger all pretty much. Flat battery all of a sudden. GTO ECM failed and I was stick in Timaru. Wife took car to Dunners, flattened battery, jumpered it incorrectly and the car lost electrical power. Alternator failed, $1000 later. My Prelude at 45k broke a cambelt. But, over the years not much, but an electrical engine surely must be more reliable due solely to fewer parts and less complexity?

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#1832427 27-Jul-2017 18:09

tdgeek:

Well, they are inherently more complicated. The older the car, or the more mileage, many components wear or fail. ICE is reliable, Im just saying I would expect EV to be more reliable, less to go wrong. Not that I know much at all about an EV engine. What have I had go wrong? Bugger all pretty much. Flat battery all of a sudden. GTO ECM failed and I was stick in Timaru. Wife took car to Dunners, flattened battery, jumpered it incorrectly and the car lost electrical power. Alternator failed, $1000 later. My Prelude at 45k broke a cambelt. But, over the years not much, but an electrical engine surely must be more reliable due solely to fewer parts and less complexity?

Yes, you'd think so. But the main cause of concern about failing to get from A to B will be due to lack of charge, which is arguably more likely than failure of an ICE

surfisup1000

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#1832429 27-Jul-2017 18:20

shk292:

tdgeek:

Id say the reliability of EV engine over ICE is substantial? Far less moving parts. Thats probably more risk than EV centric risks?

Seriously? Do people have anxiety that their ICE won't start or will break down. I can remember the last time my car randomly broke down through an engine fault - it was 1989, and a faulty oil pressure sensor meant that I stopped the car as a precaution. The last British-made car I bought

The only other time I've been unable to use my car was through a flat battery

Only because you look carefully after yours, change lubricants, maintain the drive train components.

People who don't service their vehicles (plenty of them around) do have a higher breakdown frequency.

EV's may decrease the breakdown difference between those who would normally service their vehicles and those who don't.

My ford has broken down twice due to having having an ICE -- not the engine itself but ancillary components such as the starter motor and transmission components. And, my ford is always serviced and well cared for - in fact, the last service stung me 4k!!!

Even flat batteries will be less likely in an EV due to better battery management technology (not withstanding not recharging which i equate to being the same as running out of petrol).

surfisup1000

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#1832433 27-Jul-2017 18:24

shk292:

Yes, you'd think so. But the main cause of concern about failing to get from A to B will be due to lack of charge, which is arguably more likely than failure of an ICE

Lack of charge in an EV is equivalent to lack of petrol. Soooo, equally likely for this to occur whether it is an EV or ICE?

[edit] speaking of which, i recall driving over some very long bridges (causeway) in the USA around new orleans where there are warnings to ensure you have enough fuel before crossing.

Sidestep

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#1832434 27-Jul-2017 18:26

frankv:

Sidestep:

On the positive side there may be ... a new catalyst that allows low energy hydrogen electrolysis...

The rest is good, but this is not going to happen.

Thermodynamics says you get less energy out of converting hydrogen and oxygen to water than you put in to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen. An improved catalyst will reduce the difference, but you'll still need to get the energy to do the electrolysis from somewhere. If you want 100kWh out, you'll need to put 100kWh in. In which case, you might as well just put your 100kWh directly to the wheels and avoid the losses of electrolysis and the Karnaugh cycle.

Ha – no, not breaking Thermodynamics - just the potential of new catalysts to 'increase the efficiency' of electrical decomposition of water into hydrogen/oxygen .

Let's say a cheap renewable catalyst allows conversion of (solar/wind/wave) energy into hydrogen with - 80% efficiency - then an efficient fuel stack, or combined cycle gas turbine to converts it back to electricity, they could get up to 50% or more efficiency over the whole process.

Then you'd have an energy storage contender for large or heavy equipment operation. Which are going to be fossil fuel holdouts.

Add more hydrogen, it'll keep running, unlike trying to power your bulldozer with Li-Ion batteries where very good charge efficiency is negated by low specific energy content (needing a giant battery pack) and life cycle (replacing the giant battery pack) and requires massive charging (of big battery pack).

At the moment most hydrogen's produced through steam reformation from natural gas with lots of CO2 left over.

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#1832444 27-Jul-2017 18:44

surfisup1000:

shk292:

Yes, you'd think so. But the main cause of concern about failing to get from A to B will be due to lack of charge, which is arguably more likely than failure of an ICE

Lack of charge in an EV is equivalent to lack of petrol. Soooo, equally likely for this to occur whether it is an EV or ICE?

[edit] speaking of which, i recall driving over some very long bridges (causeway) in the USA around new orleans where there are warnings to ensure you have enough fuel before crossing.

Lake Ponchartrain? Its BIIIG

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#1832445 27-Jul-2017 18:46

shk292:

tdgeek:

Id say the reliability of EV engine over ICE is substantial? Far less moving parts. Thats probably more risk than EV centric risks?

Seriously? Do people have anxiety that their ICE won't start or will break down. I can remember the last time my car randomly broke down through an engine fault - it was 1989, and a faulty oil pressure sensor meant that I stopped the car as a precaution. The last British-made car I bought

The only other time I've been unable to use my car was through a flat battery

Ah, you weren't in a manual car then :) I recall pushing my Honda Civic by the A pillars, then jumping in and whacking in 2nd gear and cough sputter vroom!

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

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#1832446 27-Jul-2017 18:48

tdgeek:

smalltrader:

Dream on. Transport as a Service ...

You just look at Singapore. It already has more or less "Transport as a Service" and arguably the best transport infrastructure in the world. You could go anywhere in Singapore using the MRT (Mass Rapid Transit) system for a dollar or two (cheap as chips). And Taxi in Singapore is so cheap that it is not funny and taxi is everywhere on the street day and night, one will zoom past every minute or two.

The Singapore government deliberately tax car ownership to the max. The tax on a car could easily be more than the price of the car itself AND you have to apply for permit to own a car. Only so many permits are allowed per year. AND you have to pay a congestion tax to enter the CBD.

Guest what happens to car sales in Singapore. It is increasing year on year. People are queueing up to apply for car ownership permit despite car costing 2 - 3 times as much in NZ. Like I have said, for a good portion of people, car ownership is like house ownership. As a service works for some people but not others.

Random thought. Everyone including all the leading industry analysts such as Garters and Forrester predicted the demise of printers 20 years with the birth of the Internet and the digital media. Guest what happens to printer sales today? Printers sale remain a solid revenue stream for HP, Canon, Brothers ..etc.

NZ differs wildy from Singapore. Same population, but NZ is 34 times larger, and its not one city and no rural. A small city state is ideal for public transport to be to go to means of getting around, not here

As I said, there are about ten thousand places on the island that you cannot get to via MRT.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

surfisup1000

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#1832453 27-Jul-2017 19:02

tdgeek:

surfisup1000:

shk292:

Yes, you'd think so. But the main cause of concern about failing to get from A to B will be due to lack of charge, which is arguably more likely than failure of an ICE

Lack of charge in an EV is equivalent to lack of petrol. Soooo, equally likely for this to occur whether it is an EV or ICE?

[edit] speaking of which, i recall driving over some very long bridges (causeway) in the USA around new orleans where there are warnings to ensure you have enough fuel before crossing.

Lake Ponchartrain? Its BIIIG

Ah yes, thats the one. Amazing to drive it.

tdgeek

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#1832456 27-Jul-2017 19:04

surfisup1000:

tdgeek:

surfisup1000:

shk292:

Yes, you'd think so. But the main cause of concern about failing to get from A to B will be due to lack of charge, which is arguably more likely than failure of an ICE

Lack of charge in an EV is equivalent to lack of petrol. Soooo, equally likely for this to occur whether it is an EV or ICE?

[edit] speaking of which, i recall driving over some very long bridges (causeway) in the USA around new orleans where there are warnings to ensure you have enough fuel before crossing.

Lake Ponchartrain? Its BIIIG

Ah yes, thats the one. Amazing to drive it.

On a bridge, cant see the coast, awesome. For me that was pre Katrina by a year.

tdgeek

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#1832460 27-Jul-2017 19:12

Mike Hosking what a d#ck. Anti EV. Its cheaper to get 70 litres of petrol and away you go for 1000km. And no charging network for EV. EV is 100 years old, hasn't worked. And don't follow UK as no one will, and they got sued by someone. Crazy. May as well look for at the next house on a hill and forget climate change, thats the kiwi attitude, well, some. And the rest don't even know

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#1832467 27-Jul-2017 19:26

he's likely still paying off his Ferrari from what you're saying

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

tdgeek

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#1832470 27-Jul-2017 19:31

Batman:

he's likely still paying off his Ferrari from what you're saying

Yeah, she did say he goes vroom vroom when he leaves at night. Just be honest, your talking to the nation. Enjoy your car but tell the truth

LOL, in the clip that preceded it, they were at a guys place who loves US old cars. He has one that does 4mpg. And fair enough, thats cool. He said he is a greenie, he is doing his best to use up the horrible fossil fuels, was funny.

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#1832550 27-Jul-2017 21:39

tdgeek:

Mike Hosking what a d#ck. Anti EV. Its cheaper to get 70 litres of petrol and away you go for 1000km. And no charging network for EV. EV is 100 years old, hasn't worked. And don't follow UK as no one will, and they got sued by someone. Crazy. May as well look for at the next house on a hill and forget climate change, thats the kiwi attitude, well, some. And the rest don't even know

Re this climate change stuff, how 'green' is our power? I know many countries still burn coal anyway.

IMO a better way to save the planet is not to buy big batteries to lug big batteries around but to stop using non degradable stuff aka 'plastic'. You might think you're not using plastic but I guarantee you'll be horrified how much 'plastic' large firms throw out - from hotels to hospitals, etc.

Yes you can go and buy your big batteries to lug your big batteries around, but it ain't the way to save the planet. Unless you stop air and sea travel, or your journalists air travel, or your politicians air travel, or your food air or sea travelling.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

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