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Topic # 220375 8-Aug-2017 14:16
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So after a little advice on what to do. Very stressed out by all this and don't know what to do.
Backstory below.

I purchased a used Subaru legacy GTB etune(Bilstein) from j&r autos in Picton. I traded my Volkswagen golf in and paid cash on top.
21st of July I pay for and pickup the car, on my way driving home I notice alignment is out badly and pulls to the right and there is a light knocking. I informed the dealer immediately, he offered to have it looked at by mag n turbo. They said it needed sway bar mounts and that they could not figure out the reason why it pulled right so badly even after alignment. He said it is certainly a safety concern.



They informed the dealer and he was supposed to ring me. Never happened so I called him, he down played what mag n turbo had recommended. I got my own second opinion and they corrected the alignment with proper toe, all fine there. I paid for it because I wanted it done. But the knock was not sorted yet. So contacted the dealer.


He said bring it back to me a week later, I agreed. He looked at it and said it's just swaybar mounts bushings, easy and cheap. Ok. But he just got the oarts for me and said I can fix them. I was unhappy but wanted my car right.
It did not resolve the knocking.

So I took it to a shop here yesterday and they said it's 85% likely the Bilstein shocks top hats are perished, hence the constant knocking.

I contacted the dealer and he's said he's already done enough, and doesn't want to help anymore and that as far as he's concerned it's a used car and is fine. It's listed as a GT Bilstein. But the car is not performing how it should be. There should be no knocking.

It's dragged on awhile now and I'm over it, I want my car up to spec and safe.

Any ideas on what to do?




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  Reply # 1841195 8-Aug-2017 15:03
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Consumer Guarantees Act has you covered here.. He has a legal responsibility to rectify any defects or refund your money.

 

If he's a complete prat and refuses,  your legal options are you can take him to disputes tribunal if its under $15k or if its over $15k, you need to file against him at the district court. Going to the district court will likely cost you some serious coin yourself however as you will probably need to hire a lawyer to do it for you.

 

If you care to travel the alternative road, they are a registered company, which means his home address in Waikawa Bay is a matter of public record. Pay some large gentlemen to go around to his house late at night and politely ask for your money back.





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  Reply # 1841196 8-Aug-2017 15:03
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Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.

 

 





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  Reply # 1841203 8-Aug-2017 15:13
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ajobbins:

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.


 


No independent inspection done, none available in my area. The car received a new wof from vtnz Levin, I spoke to the testing station here and they said the issues it currently has would fail a warrant of fitness.
I thought I was covered under the cga for three months?
A knocking sound is not normal, it could potentially hazardous until the issue is actually identified.

Why should I have to pay to remedy a fault?




Ludez

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  Reply # 1841211 8-Aug-2017 15:23
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ajobbins:

 

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill. 

 

 

That's incorrect, the CGA covers more than just a standard good enough to pass a WOF (and when it was probably the dealer's mechanic that gave it the WOF I wouldn't trust it anyway).

 

There's details about what you can do here: https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/get-guidance/cars-and-motoring/solving-issues-with-your-car-dealer/


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  Reply # 1841217 8-Aug-2017 15:30
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meesham:

ajobbins:


Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill. 



That's incorrect, the CGA covers more than just a standard good enough to pass a WOF (and when it was probably the dealer's mechanic that gave it the WOF I wouldn't trust it anyway).


There's details about what you can do here: https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/get-guidance/cars-and-motoring/solving-issues-with-your-car-dealer/



You beat me to it!

As someone who's had significant repairs carried out on a car bought from a dealer (including replacing the motor), I can attest to the value of the CGA in these circumstances.

Whether or not the purchaser had a pre-purchase inspection shouldn't affect a dealer's responsibility to sell a car free of significant faults.



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  Reply # 1841221 8-Aug-2017 15:32
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The car was marketed specifically as being and having Bilstein suspension it's even on the rego. The issues we're not made clear to me and I would not have bought the vehicle knowing those faults.

Given that the whole marketing was the Bilstein and they are shot, that's not fit for purpose.




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  Reply # 1841223 8-Aug-2017 15:33
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jonathan18:
meesham:

ajobbins:


Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill. 



That's incorrect, the CGA covers more than just a standard good enough to pass a WOF (and when it was probably the dealer's mechanic that gave it the WOF I wouldn't trust it anyway).


There's details about what you can do here: https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/get-guidance/cars-and-motoring/solving-issues-with-your-car-dealer/



You beat me to it!

As someone who's had significant repairs carried out on a car bought from a dealer (including replacing the motor), I can attest to the value of the CGA in these circumstances.

Whether or not the purchaser had a pre-purchase inspection shouldn't affect a dealer's responsibility to sell a car free of significant faults.


What would your advice be here?




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  Reply # 1841225 8-Aug-2017 15:33
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ludez:
ajobbins:

 

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.

 

 

 

 

 


No independent inspection done, none available in my area. The car received a new wof from vtnz Levin, I spoke to the testing station here and they said the issues it currently has would fail a warrant of fitness.
I thought I was covered under the cga for three months?
A knocking sound is not normal, it could potentially hazardous until the issue is actually identified.

Why should I have to pay to remedy a fault?

 

 

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=204794

Have a look here, I did the same thing but at the time of posting I had come to agreement to get my money back but it may have some insight for you, I also posted another thread around the same time about my situation and if i can find it ill post it here for you.

Its more mediation than the law says this must happen, you and the dealer must both agree for an outcome.
If you agree to get it checked in your time thats on you and IMO silly from what I did, I wont see that $200 back ever.

The only agreement you will make is your money back, Do not accept a repair.

How long have you had this car?
Has it been like this since you got it or have these things developed?
Swaybar mounts are wear parts, If its been time since you got it i doubt you have any traction there. A knock is also tear and wear so that also may bite you.

Fortunately my issue was existing faults and spontaneous failure.

Best of Luck.

Cheers




 

 






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  Reply # 1841226 8-Aug-2017 15:34
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ludez:
ajobbins:

 

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.

 


No independent inspection done, none available in my area. The car received a new wof from vtnz Levin, I spoke to the testing station here and they said the issues it currently has would fail a warrant of fitness.
I thought I was covered under the cga for three months?
A knocking sound is not normal, it could potentially hazardous until the issue is actually identified.

Why should I have to pay to remedy a fault?

 

The CGA should apply because the vehicle is not up to WOF standard when you took delivery. (How did it get a WOF in that case is another question). Obviously every used car is never going to be perfect, so there has to be some threshold as to where to apply the CGA (I see references online to a 'serious' issue). That standard/threashold is not explicit in law, so using WOF is a good benchmark.

 

I could be wrong, but I can't see any reference online to a 3 month CGA period. My guess would be that again that is not explicit, and would probably be a case by case thing as to what the issue was, how long it was likley present (e.g. if you find something major 6 months down the track, was that likley to have been the case when you purchased?), but some things could be fine at time of sale, but rapidly deteriorate based on your driving habits - which wouldn't be the dealers problem.





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  Reply # 1841228 8-Aug-2017 15:36
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ludez: The car was marketed specifically as being and having Bilstein suspension it's even on the rego. The issues we're not made clear to me and I would not have bought the vehicle knowing those faults.

Given that the whole marketing was the Bilstein and they are shot, that's not fit for purpose.


This is no different than my BMW coming with M Sport suspension. Everything wears out over time and needs to be replaced and it seems that the suspension is no exception to that. Any car with shot suspension Bilstein or not isn't fit for purpose. 









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  Reply # 1841231 8-Aug-2017 15:42
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I've owned the car since July 21st. So not very long and I immediately noted the issues to him.

I want the car, I really like it but I want it safe and back to normal




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  Reply # 1841234 8-Aug-2017 15:48
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ajobbins:

 

ludez:
ajobbins:

 

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.

 


No independent inspection done, none available in my area. The car received a new wof from vtnz Levin, I spoke to the testing station here and they said the issues it currently has would fail a warrant of fitness.
I thought I was covered under the cga for three months?
A knocking sound is not normal, it could potentially hazardous until the issue is actually identified.

Why should I have to pay to remedy a fault?

 

The CGA should apply because the vehicle is not up to WOF standard when you took delivery. (How did it get a WOF in that case is another question). Obviously every used car is never going to be perfect, so there has to be some threshold as to where to apply the CGA (I see references online to a 'serious' issue). That standard/threashold is not explicit in law, so using WOF is a good benchmark.

 

I could be wrong, but I can't see any reference online to a 3 month CGA period. My guess would be that again that is not explicit, and would probably be a case by case thing as to what the issue was, how long it was likley present (e.g. if you find something major 6 months down the track, was that likley to have been the case when you purchased?), but some things could be fine at time of sale, but rapidly deteriorate based on your driving habits - which wouldn't be the dealers problem.

 




"When considering used vehicles, the CGA will also take into account:

 

  •  

    •  

      • the age, type, price and condition of the vehicle at the time of purchase
      • wear and tear
      • whether a reasonable person would accept the quality and condition of that vehicle."

Case by case by the looks of it. I wouldnt even bother trying to go into the detail if X was worn at E time then E=MC2. 

OP i feel you have ground to stand on if you bought this vehicle and it was pulling in a direction from purchase. If it happened after the fact then the question is raised if you did it. No one can prove yes or no so it generally gets put down to wear.

Subarus do tick and idle funny cause of UEL headers and the boxer design. So wouldnt surprise me if it was just the normal. If your car was actually knocking (Combustion before spark) it would be a very different story. Ticks are common on older cars too. 










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  Reply # 1841249 8-Aug-2017 15:59
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ludez: I've owned the car since July 21st. So not very long and I immediately noted the issues to him.

I want the car, I really like it but I want it safe and back to normal

 

 

 

Make sure you got this in writing, Text or email. Do not communicate via voice and if you do RECORD IT. My car dealer wouldnt reply via text or email so i'd call him and record the calls. Boy that saved me when i reminded him i had his recordings saved. 

Note down the exact faults and what you have done to identify them, the moment you realized them. If you have spent any money investigating those faults and approval from the dealer to do so.

The dealer selling a car "as is where is" wont exclude them from the CGA. 

You need to send the dealer in writing what you expect to be done and what their obligations are.

I expect you to tell them you want your money back no less, Wear the transport and fuel costs, thats a loss that has to be taken to win in this case. 

Don't spend a further cent on this car, Stop driving it before you cause more damage.

If you are having issues communicating with the dealer the first step is mediation and then from there it can go to the courts, Generally they dont let it go to the courts and resolve it in mediation.

I believe consumer.org have people who you can speak with for free on advice for these situations.

I don't believe we have people here who solicit via the public forum so i don't think we can go giving you any advice to stand on, More a direction to go, and I hope I have been of use.






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  Reply # 1841264 8-Aug-2017 16:17
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ajobbins:

 

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is categorically incorrect. CGA covers this. 

 

The OP needs to write to the dealer, outlining his version of events, with a copy of any documentation he has collected and advise them you require them to rectify the issues outlined as faults, to accepted industry standards, and give him 14 days to comply. 

 

Tell him after this period you intend to take it further using DT and lodging a complaint with the LMVD Organization.

 

Be calm, polite professional but firm with your communication. Try and keep emotions out of it. If you are unsure, write it, put it down and sleep on it, and read it in the morning. 


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  Reply # 1841267 8-Aug-2017 16:20
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Simply because the top hats are not in good order does not mean it was not be up to WoF standard - the inspection is visual. The fact the suspension 'specialists' can't even be sure that's the origin of the knock indicates they're not too bad either.

 

ajobbins:

 

Did you have the car independently inspected prior to purchase? Unless there is some kind of mechanical warranty on the car, and it was sold with a (and is up to standard) WOF, I'm not sure the dealer has any obligation to help you other than out of goodwill.

 

 

 

This is completely wrong.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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