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586 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1860615 8-Sep-2017 00:14
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tdgeek:

 

IMHO here is my formula.

 

60L gas tank = $120+

 

Recharge = $bugger all??  40kW battery at 24c per kWh is $10.  

 

 

Don't forget to factor in the $/km. 40kWh battery won't get you anywhere near as far as 65L of petrol in a similar vehicle. Then there's the cost of capital and depreciation.

 

It's going to a fair few years yet before EV is competitive against the ICE when measured against real world costs of ownership.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


586 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 336


  Reply # 1860616 8-Sep-2017 00:18
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frankv:

 

cadman:

 

It's just the usual political grandstanding, setting some arbitrary date for something they think will be popular. It will happen on its own when the technology becomes feasible for the people that need it.

 

 

I assume that it's based on solid advice regarding expected technological advances in EVs that means they will be feasible by then.

 

 

I don't. There's no need for politicians to worry about such things as sound reasoning for claims made regarding a distant future date considering they won't be around to explain the reason for failing to meet the target. Call me cynical if you like but prefer "optimist with experience".





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


 
 
 
 


851 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 175


  Reply # 1862501 11-Sep-2017 20:03
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tdgeek:

 

IMHO here is my formula.

 

60L gas tank = $120+

 

Recharge = $bugger all??  40kW battery at 24c per kWh is $10.  

 

Summer if you have Solar PV = almost if not $0 

 

Off Peak charge = cheerier than $10

 

While $60k+ (as you have to buy new to get the latest EV tech), the $120 vs $10 or less will be a great motivator.

 

While I am very interested in EV, I feel the masses see this is new and geek and niche, but its not really. Humans dont like change

 

 

I see it as unaffordable. We looked at Ev earlier this year / late last year - and ended up with petrol as it was more affordable for us. The entry level costs to get an EV are too high. The petrol vehicle we got does 15-16km/l around town  - 2 - 3 times better than our old car (95 honda oddessy) and being relativley new (only 9k on the odo ) means we wont have to buy another for a long time. 7k outlay to get into the market.

 

To get a second hand Leaf was around 22-26k and we couldnt get a loan that big.

 

To get a new EV with a better battery, faster charging etc, 60k.

 

EV is simply unaffordable for the majority of NZ earners at present. It's not the geek factor stopping them, its the cost.

 

While an EV would pay itself back over several years, the reality would be we would be faced with battery replacement costs - putting us behind again.

 

 





nunz

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1862531 11-Sep-2017 20:26
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China too. (probable future ban on sale of fossil fuel cars)


Onward
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  Reply # 1862536 11-Sep-2017 20:44
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Fred99:

 

China too. (probable future ban on sale of fossil fuel cars)

 

 

 

 

 the size of the market in China will have an impact in boosting mass production of EVs and putting downward pressure on prices.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 




523 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1862543 11-Sep-2017 21:00
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nunz:

 

tdgeek:

 

IMHO here is my formula.

 

60L gas tank = $120+

 

Recharge = $bugger all??  40kW battery at 24c per kWh is $10.  

 

Summer if you have Solar PV = almost if not $0 

 

Off Peak charge = cheerier than $10

 

While $60k+ (as you have to buy new to get the latest EV tech), the $120 vs $10 or less will be a great motivator.

 

While I am very interested in EV, I feel the masses see this is new and geek and niche, but its not really. Humans dont like change

 

 

I see it as unaffordable. We looked at Ev earlier this year / late last year - and ended up with petrol as it was more affordable for us. The entry level costs to get an EV are too high. The petrol vehicle we got does 15-16km/l around town  - 2 - 3 times better than our old car (95 honda oddessy) and being relativley new (only 9k on the odo ) means we wont have to buy another for a long time. 7k outlay to get into the market.

 

To get a second hand Leaf was around 22-26k and we couldnt get a loan that big.

 

To get a new EV with a better battery, faster charging etc, 60k.

 

EV is simply unaffordable for the majority of NZ earners at present. It's not the geek factor stopping them, its the cost.

 

While an EV would pay itself back over several years, the reality would be we would be faced with battery replacement costs - putting us behind again.

 

 

 

 

I agree that EV is currently quite unaffordable for many people, particularly if you want to buy a new EV.

 

But, we are all responsible for controlling NZ emissions, so if you agree with some current EV owners that a contribution to reducing carbon emissions is even more important than buying a petrol car that meets your needs, then car buyers need to make some sacrifices and pay what it takes to get a suitable EV. To help NZ meet its climate change objectives, you should also avoid all non-essential air travel and consider biking to work.

 

 

 

 

 

 


122 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 87


  Reply # 1862555 11-Sep-2017 21:28
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nunz:

 

 

 

I see it as unaffordable. We looked at Ev earlier this year / late last year - and ended up with petrol as it was more affordable for us. The entry level costs to get an EV are too high. The petrol vehicle we got does 15-16km/l around town  - 2 - 3 times better than our old car (95 honda oddessy) and being relativley new (only 9k on the odo ) means we wont have to buy another for a long time. 7k outlay to get into the market.

 

To get a second hand Leaf was around 22-26k and we couldnt get a loan that big.

 

EV is simply unaffordable for the majority of NZ earners at present. It's not the geek factor stopping them, its the cost.

 

While an EV would pay itself back over several years, the reality would be we would be faced with battery replacement costs - putting us behind again.

 

 

I'd agree that for a relatively new car at $9k you can't match that with an EV at present.  Over time the prices will come down though and as new EVs become cheaper then so do the second hand EVs.  I'm not quite sure how a second hand Leaf is 22-26k though, as far as I can tell a second hand Leaf is 10-40k.  For a late model very tidy Leaf you are probably starting around $15k (which is obviously quite a bit more to outlay than $9k, but isn't as much as $26k). You can definitely get a Leaf 3 years old or newer with 12 bars on the battery for 18-22k

 

I bought a 2015 Leaf with only 7,500km on the clock for $21k, obviously not everyone can come up with that much money (or finance that much).  For me it wasn't a bad financial decision though, over the next 3 years I'll save ~$7k just for my commute to work alone - that is a pretty short time to knock a third off my expenditure. I still have to sell my previous work commuter vehicle, I should get around 7-8k for that.  In my situation it is $21k spent minus say $7k from the sale of my previous vehicle, minus another $7k saved over the next 3 years = only $7k down after 3 years.  It shouldn't be hard to save more than $7k over another 5 years to put me in a position of being able to sell the Leaf for next to nothing and still be doing OK financially.

 

I'm not concerned about the battery replacement cost, I most likely wont be replacing my battery.  After 8+ years I'll end up selling the car to someone with a shorter commute and buying another second hand car that has a MUCH greater range.  If in 8 years I buy a second hand 2023 EV it will quite possibly have a solid state battery that will last the life of the car (and more) which means I wont have to worry about replacing the battery in my next EV either.


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