MBIE Petrol Study

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#1915634 9-Dec-2017 12:19

tdgeek:

Technofreak:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

Petrol is has a significant amount of tax in the price you pay. Do you see the government reducing the amount of tax they grab from petrol?

Why would they? The issue is the industry messing with margins and schemes to garner extra unfair revenue.

That is AN issue, not THE issue.

Jase2985

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#1915635 9-Dec-2017 12:20

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

In what way is that bizarre? About $1 of each litre is just tax. Reduce the tax and you reduce the cost of fuel.

yep and you also reduce funding for other things

sbiddle

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#1915764 9-Dec-2017 19:13

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

The price could also drop if petrol companies stopped forcing Wellington and some (but not all) South Island customers to subsidise their discounting in Auckland.. Of course this would mean many North Island customers paying less right now would have to pay more to maintain their margins.

Z should not have been allowed to by Caltex - only one ComCom member voted against that, and she's the only one (ironically she's Australian) who understoof what would happen.

Z wanted Caltex to average out their business units. Caltex could compete at the low and the Z at the high end and averaged out they'd have margins better than the rest of the industry. It's a stragety that's working very well for them.

Geektastic

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#1915974 10-Dec-2017 12:14

Jase2985:

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

In what way is that bizarre? About $1 of each litre is just tax. Reduce the tax and you reduce the cost of fuel.

yep and you also reduce funding for other things

Yet you put more money in the pocket of every household and business in New Zealand..

cadman

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#1916010 10-Dec-2017 14:07

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

In what way is that bizarre? About $1 of each litre is just tax. Reduce the tax and you reduce the cost of fuel.

At the very least the GST on the levy and duty portions should be dropped - it's a tax on a tax. Same with GST on rates - rates are themselves a goods and service tax.

But they won't. The need the money for the next election bribes.

Jase2985

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#1916029 10-Dec-2017 15:30

Geektastic:

Jase2985:

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

In what way is that bizarre? About $1 of each litre is just tax. Reduce the tax and you reduce the cost of fuel.

yep and you also reduce funding for other things

Yet you put more money in the pocket of every household and business in New Zealand..

and you only get a portion of that back as GST

Geektastic

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#1916312 10-Dec-2017 23:03

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Jase2985:
Geektastic:

Jase2985:

Geektastic:

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

The only real way we will see petrol get cheaper is if the government slashes tax on it.

Hands up anyone who thinks they will do that? No? No one?

Bizarre statement can you elaborate?

In what way is that bizarre? About $1 of each litre is just tax. Reduce the tax and you reduce the cost of fuel.

yep and you also reduce funding for other things

Yet you put more money in the pocket of every household and business in New Zealand..

and you only get a portion of that back as GST

So what?

People should have their own money. The government already takes too much really and it rarely spends it that well, as the recent report on the health service (for example) shows.

If people have more money to spend, then you get the benefits of that money circulating in the economy and - hopefully at least - benefitting people and their families, their businesses and so on.

Fred99

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#1916327 11-Dec-2017 05:54

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AFAIK revenue collected from petrol excise / RUC goes to what it's collected for - roading.

Reduce that, and then we'd probably be facing worse road maintenance or expensive toll roads - or probably both.

If the government wants to increase true competition in the fuel retail market, they need to regulate to ban or limit fuel discount vouchers / cards. The huge discounts obfuscate price comparison - that's why it's the way it is.

Geektastic

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#1916400 11-Dec-2017 09:51

Fred99:

AFAIK revenue collected from petrol excise / RUC goes to what it's collected for - roading.

Reduce that, and then we'd probably be facing worse road maintenance or expensive toll roads - or probably both.

If the government wants to increase true competition in the fuel retail market, they need to regulate to ban or limit fuel discount vouchers / cards. The huge discounts obfuscate price comparison - that's why it's the way it is.

I doubt very much whether that money is ring fenced - and I do not think it is possible for it to be ring fenced in the future, because if we all stop buying petrol due to using electric cars, there will still be a need to fix roads and no petrol sales to fund it if that is where it comes from.

networkn

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#1916407 11-Dec-2017 09:58

I also believe it's not ring-fenced.

frankv

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#1916580 11-Dec-2017 11:51

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Geektastic:

I doubt very much whether that money is ring fenced - and I do not think it is possible for it to be ring fenced in the future, because if we all stop buying petrol due to using electric cars, there will still be a need to fix roads and no petrol sales to fund it if that is where it comes from.

NZTA money is not ring-fenced... it just comes form the Crown https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/annual-report-nzta/summary-report/financial-summary

OTOH, http://transport.govt.nz/land/roadusercharges/where-does-the-money-go/ says

NLTF revenue comes from fuel excise duty, road user charges (RUC), and motor vehicle registration and licensing fees. All revenue from these sources is hypothecated, or earmarked, to land transport expenditure apart from about $7 million of fuel excise revenue that goes to search and rescue and recreational boating safety activities.

There's also the small matter of NZTA saying it get $2Bpa from NLTF and the Govt saying it puts $3Bpa into it, but that's possibly the difference between 2009 and 2013?

EVs will be paying RUCs when there are enough of them.

MikeAqua

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#1916648 11-Dec-2017 12:54

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Geektastic has a very good point. Government is getting close to 50% of the retail price of fuel.

http://www.aa.co.nz/cars/maintenance/fuel-prices-and-types/how-petrol-prices-are-calculated/

Hypocritical for any govt to criticise when their snout is deeper in the trough than the oil companies' snouts.

And soon if you buy your fuel in Auckland you will so get another 10c a litre (?+ GST?) tax.

Mike

MartinGZ

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#1916674 11-Dec-2017 13:19

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I've been using and can recommend the app Gaspy which shows all the fuel prices in the area based on crowd sourced data. On their website (https://gaspy.nz/) they also show the average prices in the different regions which makes for interesting reading.

@tehgerbi - if you use the app, you will find that there are a few stations in ChCh that have cheaper fuel, but agreed, ALL the rest have the same prices.

Oblivian

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#1916699 11-Dec-2017 13:23

MartinGZ:

I've been using and can recommend the app Gaspy which shows all the fuel prices in the area based on crowd sourced data. On their website (https://gaspy.nz/) they also show the average prices in the different regions which makes for interesting reading.

@tehgerbi - if you use the app, you will find that there are a few stations in ChCh that have cheaper fuel, but agreed, ALL the rest have the same prices.

I update them for others, but pass enough to not rely on it. However if you believe it even Lincoln Rd Mobil is still selling.. (its been closed for 3 months and still is). Bloody stat padders updating wrong details. Needs a proximity to location update restriction.

MartinGZ

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#1916738 11-Dec-2017 13:46

Oblivian:

I update them for others, but pass enough to not rely on it. However if you believe it even Lincoln Rd Mobil is still selling.. (its been closed for 3 months and still is). Bloody stat padders updating wrong details. Needs a proximity to location update restriction.

Yeah they can sometimes be slightly out of date, and you never quite know if head office is sending false data. But that is the sort of thing crowd sourcing should pickup. We also had a local station close, and I just let Gaspy know through the app feedback and it disappeared from the system. It was soon back when it reopened as BP a few months later.

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