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epr

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  Reply # 1923516 22-Dec-2017 08:30
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epr: The problem is we are terrible drivers and are allowed to teach our kids to drive cumpolsory driver training and do not let the general public teach each other to drive.


I should say part of the answer sorry.

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  Reply # 1923542 22-Dec-2017 09:12
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epr:
epr: The problem is we are terrible drivers and are allowed to teach our kids to drive cumpolsory driver training and do not let the general public teach each other to drive.


I should say part of the answer sorry.

 

I'd say that lack of knowledge of road rules is only a small part of it.  Most serious accidents aren't the result of lack of knowledge of road safety rules, they're the result of ignoring the consequences of flouting the rules - a belief that you'll get away with it, either by not getting caught and punished, or not killing yourself or others.

 

NZ drivers are aggressive. The lack of general courtesy and consideration for others is shameful - be that little things like facilitating fair "merge light a zip" behaviour or allowing someone stuck in the wrong lane to indicate and shift, through to pushing (sadly too often past) the limit on giving way at intersections, overtaking etc.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1923546 22-Dec-2017 09:17
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Fred99:

epr:
epr: The problem is we are terrible drivers and are allowed to teach our kids to drive cumpolsory driver training and do not let the general public teach each other to drive.


I should say part of the answer sorry.


I'd say that lack of knowledge of road rules is only a small part of it.  Most serious accidents aren't the result of lack of knowledge of road safety rules, they're the result of ignoring the consequences of flouting the rules - a belief that you'll get away with it, either by not getting caught and punished, or not killing yourself or others.


NZ drivers are aggressive. The lack of general courtesy and consideration for others is shameful - be that little things like facilitating fair "merge light a zip" behaviour or allowing someone stuck in the wrong lane to indicate and shift, through to pushing (sadly too often past) the limit on giving way at intersections, overtaking etc.



I would add that too many believe their cars are toys, the roads their play ground, the rules are optional and if caught some how it’s the Police that are at fault and are just revenue collecting.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1923550 22-Dec-2017 09:28
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Carrying on from my earlier clarifications about different transparent divisions and pressure from above..

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/100061307/police-understaffing-and-stress-playing-a-part-in-high-road-toll-says-officer 

 

 

 

 

Last year, the government cut 111 officers from the road policing teams. It represented an 8 per cent reduction to the then 1353 dedicated road policing positions.

 

As a result, police said they had no choice but to re-assign those roading positions to other areas of policing.


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  Reply # 1923610 22-Dec-2017 11:08
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Discussed in today's fish and chip wrapper:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/99962708/as-road-toll-creeps-up-christmas-holiday-4kmh-speed-tolerance-policy-launches

 

I don't always agree with Clive Matthew-Sideburns-Wilson but do this time:

 

'Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the Dog and Lemon Guide, said rigid enforcement of speed limits had not helped bring the road toll down.

 

"For years, the police have been telling us that rigid enforcement of speed limits would lower the road toll. In fact, it's gone up," Clive Matthew-Wilson said.

 

"When are they going to admit they got it wrong?"

 

The rising road toll "wasn't the result of ordinary motorists drifting a few kilometres over the speed limit", Matthew-Wilson said.

 

"It's the result of a tiny group driving badly on a poorly designed roading system."

 

Motorists who persistently drove drunk or high, and did not wear seatbelts, were the main culprits and it was time police focused their efforts on that small group, Matthew-Wilson said. 

 

Citing Ministry of Transport research, he said speed was not the issue as 85 per cent of road deaths happened below the speed limit.

 

"Of the 15 per cent of accidents that occur above the speed limit, almost all are caused by either yobbos, impaired drivers or outlaw motorcyclists."'

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1923615 22-Dec-2017 11:19
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kryptonjohn:

 

 

 

And the UK, where not only are the camera's painted bright yellow, but the mobile vans are also glaring, and they have signs announcing camera zones.

 

 

 

 

Yup - as a Pommie, these are the ones I was thinking of!





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  Reply # 1923621 22-Dec-2017 11:27
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I must confess, that over my few years living in the UK I did get one GATSO ticket posted to me. It requested that I post in the payment, along with the endorsement part of my UK driver's licence. So I posted them a cheque, along with a photocopy of my NZ licence and claimed I was just visiting and driving on my NZ licence. They posted the cheque back with a letter explaining they cannot accept it without the UK licence. Never heard back from them after that. Was 16 years ago so hopefully they've forgotten about me now!

 

 


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  Reply # 1923623 22-Dec-2017 11:32
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scuwp:

 

This revenue collecting rubbish just won't go away - Police DO NOT get a single cent from the fines they collect.  

 

 

The money fills coffers somewhere and is a significant revenue stream, regardless of where in the system it ends up.

 

 

 

Besides, given that:

 

     

  1. The "hidden" and un-promoted nature of many speed cameras in NZ renders them useless as a speed control method for drivers who don't know they are there and ensures those that do know need only slow down for that specific 20 metres and
  2. As you don't get demerit points from a speeding camera, the fines are not much of a deterrent for those that can afford them.

 

I still challenge their value as a tool to enforce safe and curteous driving...so what are they for?

 

 

 

(and as per my previous posts, I have no issues with speed limts, enforcing speed limits and tools which support this in a meaningful way with a safety-focussed outcome)





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  Reply # 1923661 22-Dec-2017 12:54
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If folks don't like getting speeding tickets the answer is oh so simple. DON'T SPEED!  Until the road safety cameras stop generating fines their need remains.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1923662 22-Dec-2017 12:58
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MikeB4:

 

If folks don't like getting speeding tickets the answer is oh so simple. DON'T SPEED!  Until the road safety cameras stop generating fines their need remains.

 

 

 

 

Don't think anyone was arguing that point?

 

 

 

(I certainly wasn't!)





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  Reply # 1923699 22-Dec-2017 16:27
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Item:

 

Geektastic:

 

They should install red light cameras with automatic $1000 fines and 50 points on all red lights.

 

 

This one is surely a no-brainer (at least for major junctions), especially as it ticks both boxes by giving traffic cops a boost to their precious revenue stream whilst genuinely reducing risk of injury, death and anti-social driving behaviours - unlike a large number of fixed speed cameras.

 

 

I would be in favour for this IF, and only if, they re-phase the lights at those intersections so there's not the huge delay there currently is between the red for one direction and the green for the other. Oh, and longer phases too. The short ones are hopeless - too much time is wasted on orange and red-to-green delay.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


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  Reply # 1923700 22-Dec-2017 16:29
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kryptonjohn:

 

I don't always agree with Clive Matthew-Sideburns-Wilson but do this time:

 

 

I also agree with him. That's a first for me, I believe.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


epr

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  Reply # 1923751 22-Dec-2017 19:22
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Fred99:

epr:
epr: The problem is we are terrible drivers and are allowed to teach our kids to drive cumpolsory driver training and do not let the general public teach each other to drive.


I should say part of the answer sorry.


I'd say that lack of knowledge of road rules is only a small part of it.  Most serious accidents aren't the result of lack of knowledge of road safety rules, they're the result of ignoring the consequences of flouting the rules - a belief that you'll get away with it, either by not getting caught and punished, or not killing yourself or others.


NZ drivers are aggressive. The lack of general courtesy and consideration for others is shameful - be that little things like facilitating fair "merge light a zip" behaviour or allowing someone stuck in the wrong lane to indicate and shift, through to pushing (sadly too often past) the limit on giving way at intersections, overtaking etc.



Yes because they are taught to drive like morons by their parents proper driver training from professionals is a necessity it's not about knowing the road rules it's about learning how to drive from someone qualified to do so. Until we start insisting upon proper driver training we will see little to no change in our road tolls or accident numbers.

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  Reply # 1923810 22-Dec-2017 23:34
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Behodar:

 

I remember a quote from a cop saying something like "if we were revenue gathering then we'd just sit at roundabouts and hand out tickets to everyone that indicates right and goes straight ahead".

 

 

 

 

If you want to revenue gather, just use digital speed cameras in the sort of quantities they do in much of Europe.

 

Between my home and office at one time I passed 6 cameras in each direction. Had I been speeding, that would give me at the minimum fine $1200 in each direction plus enough points to lose my licence by the time I got home...!






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  Reply # 1923811 22-Dec-2017 23:39
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epr:
Fred99:

 

epr:
epr: The problem is we are terrible drivers and are allowed to teach our kids to drive cumpolsory driver training and do not let the general public teach each other to drive.


I should say part of the answer sorry.

 

 

 

I'd say that lack of knowledge of road rules is only a small part of it.  Most serious accidents aren't the result of lack of knowledge of road safety rules, they're the result of ignoring the consequences of flouting the rules - a belief that you'll get away with it, either by not getting caught and punished, or not killing yourself or others.

 

 

 

NZ drivers are aggressive. The lack of general courtesy and consideration for others is shameful - be that little things like facilitating fair "merge light a zip" behaviour or allowing someone stuck in the wrong lane to indicate and shift, through to pushing (sadly too often past) the limit on giving way at intersections, overtaking etc.

 



Yes because they are taught to drive like morons by their parents proper driver training from professionals is a necessity it's not about knowing the road rules it's about learning how to drive from someone qualified to do so. Until we start insisting upon proper driver training we will see little to no change in our road tolls or accident numbers.

 

 

 

Absolutely 100% agree.

 

It is high time that a minimum professional training requirement was introduced. Compare us with somewhere like Germany - there, parents never teach children to drive, you MUST go to a driving school. You must also pass a First Aid qualification in addition to the usual eye tests and so forth. Just one example.

 

It just isn't taken seriously enough here.






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