First Driverless Car Death

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2523 posts

Uber Geek

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#1984804 28-Mar-2018 11:06

I think there's going to be a period of self driving cars running 99% the same smarts as driverless. This will get driver-driven cars time to get used to them, and time for the self-drive/driverless technology to mature.

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cruxis

437 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1984805 28-Mar-2018 11:09

nunz:

When most cars are autonomous it will be easy for them as they will know and expect the behaviour or other cars.

What they can't predict is the timid driver going down an on-ramp at 40kph.....and slowing down as they approach the merge before suddenly doing a "Hail Mary" into the 100kph lane.

It's the incompetent (including suddenly ill / incapacitated) humans that will cause enormous problems for any AI.

Elderly people having a TIA and driving through the front entrance of an office tower (as I saw one day in Featherson St, Wellington), for example.....

Then its not a true AI driverless car in my book. Its just a computer following rules and not thinking for itself. I good defensive human driver might be able to predict those future actions by picking up on things like it is an elderly driver, the person has gripped the wheel in 10 and 2 position ready to floor it, they are rapidly glancing back and forth over their shoulder, or glancing in their mirrors looking for thatgap to dart into. All intuitive body language signs I expect a AI car to take into account in the future.

tdgeek

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#1984839 28-Mar-2018 11:51

cruxis:

nunz:

When most cars are autonomous it will be easy for them as they will know and expect the behaviour or other cars.

What they can't predict is the timid driver going down an on-ramp at 40kph.....and slowing down as they approach the merge before suddenly doing a "Hail Mary" into the 100kph lane.

It's the incompetent (including suddenly ill / incapacitated) humans that will cause enormous problems for any AI.

Elderly people having a TIA and driving through the front entrance of an office tower (as I saw one day in Featherson St, Wellington), for example.....

Then its not a true AI driverless car in my book. Its just a computer following rules and not thinking for itself. I good defensive human driver might be able to predict those future actions by picking up on things like it is an elderly driver, the person has gripped the wheel in 10 and 2 position ready to floor it, they are rapidly glancing back and forth over their shoulder, or glancing in their mirrors looking for thatgap to dart into. All intuitive body language signs I expect a AI car to take into account in the future.

I dont consider these as AI in any sense. They need to be CPU controlled as a CPU doesnt get tired, be slack on road rules, take risks. The car needs to navigate from A to B, easy. Follow road rules, easy. Collision avoidance, easy, all of this is old hat technology. The car has anti lock brakes, traction control, the CPU needs to be coded for how to correctly brake and steer while avoiding, not hard. F1 has sensors that can tell when you farted, its all out there

A 5 minute drive on quiet streets is no harder than 5th Ave, NYC in rush hour, the same things apply, the CPU has no issue if its gets busy

Linuxluver

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#1984855 28-Mar-2018 12:23

cruxis:

Then its not a true AI driverless car in my book. Its just a computer following rules and not thinking for itself. I good defensive human driver might be able to predict those future actions by picking up on things like it is an elderly driver, the person has gripped the wheel in 10 and 2 position ready to floor it, they are rapidly glancing back and forth over their shoulder, or glancing in their mirrors looking for thatgap to dart into. All intuitive body language signs I expect a AI car to take into account in the future.

Good points. We do watch for all those things when we drive......which is why tinted windows should be illegal with no exceptions.

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Linuxluver

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#1984857 28-Mar-2018 12:25

tdgeek:

....

A 5 minute drive on quiet streets is no harder than 5th Ave, NYC in rush hour, the same things apply, the CPU has no issue if its gets busy

Very true. The processing power and multi-tasking SHOULD make autonomous cars much safer than humans eventually. But.....not quite there yet.

NO reason to stop working on it.

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tdgeek

28618 posts

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#1984881 28-Mar-2018 12:50

Linuxluver:

tdgeek:

....

A 5 minute drive on quiet streets is no harder than 5th Ave, NYC in rush hour, the same things apply, the CPU has no issue if its gets busy

Very true. The processing power and multi-tasking SHOULD make autonomous cars much safer than humans eventually. But.....not quite there yet.

NO reason to stop working on it.

Absolutely. Removing many human frailties can only be a good thing

blakamin

4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1985067 28-Mar-2018 17:55

Linuxluver:

which is why tinted windows should be illegal with no exceptions.

HAHAHA

You'd find everyone in Oz out to murder you if you suggested that here.

There's probably 1 in 15 vehicles here in Adelaide without tinting, and probably 1 in 50 in QLD, WA and NT.

I read that the car had the Volvo safety bizzo all turned off. I put it to Uber that it should be on, as a back-up system. They can look at the data after and see if the person didn't die because their system saved them, or Volvo did.

Also interesting they've not applied to extend their permit in California when it expires at the end of the month.

Linuxluver

5824 posts

Uber Geek

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#1985072 28-Mar-2018 18:04

gzt: Writeup from Fortune says inevitable:

Fortune: According to the Chronicle, the preliminary investigation found the Uber car was driving at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone and did not attempt to brake. Herzberg is said to have abruptly walked from a center median into a lane with traffic. Police believe she may have been homeless.

It's hard to know. Humans are likely to be much better at understanding the situation as it develops and minimising damage. As in holy ------ it looks like that crazy person is going to.. Center median seems kind of obvious.

Edit: autonomous car exceeding speed limit? There's a story there as well.

The speed limit was likely 45mph.....not 35. Google Earth shows the last speed sign before the scene of the accident was 45mph.

Anyway....my point here was going to be that autonomous cars will be better than many drivers.....and worse than many others.

I've seen at least 10 people this week alone who shuold not be driving a car.....including one test driving a car from the Ellerslie car sale fair on Sunday.....who was doing 25kph....wobbling all over the road.....finally pulled over to let several cars pass....when immediately pulled out in front another car and nearly him him.

Autonomous cars just could not be as bad as that (or as good as the guy who stopped on a dime when this idiot pulled out).

Most of the rest of the list is the speeding dice-danglers in silly hats tailgating everyone in sight and changing lanes without indicating.....and bonus point for driving at night with the lights off.

Autonomous cars for the win.

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gzt

15219 posts

Uber Geek

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#1985115 28-Mar-2018 20:03

Very few people know much about the driverless car in practice and there are no standards in some areas to allow them on the road. Not even a driving test.

Edit: I'm in favor of driverless vehicles and testing but there is a feeling of inevitably about this death in conditions that the majority of human drivers would have avoided or mitigated significantly imo.

nunz

1421 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1985181 28-Mar-2018 22:00

Here is how driverless cars should look - thanks Elon Musk

https://www.boringcompany.com/

https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/

tdgeek

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#1985220 29-Mar-2018 07:08

gzt: Very few people know much about the driverless car in practice and there are no standards in some areas to allow them on the road. Not even a driving test.

Edit: I'm in favor of driverless vehicles and testing but there is a feeling of inevitably about this death in conditions that the majority of human drivers would have avoided or mitigated significantly imo.

I agree. To me, I assumed the testing was exhaustive before being let loose on the roads. Plus, I dont know what status this Uber car had.

1. Autonomous, drives itself with no human requirement or presence. Not in this case

2. Self Drive, drives itself, with no need for human interaction, but need a human in case it cant do something. Maybe

3. Self Drive but more in a cruise control way, where the human is the official "driver" but the car does all the work. Maybe.

FireEngine

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#1985246 29-Mar-2018 08:47

tdgeek:

...I dont know what status this Uber car had.

1. Autonomous, drives itself with no human requirement or presence. Not in this case

2. Self Drive, drives itself, with no need for human interaction, but need a human in case it cant do something. Maybe

3. Self Drive but more in a cruise control way, where the human is the official "driver" but the car does all the work. Maybe.

It was 2 as they aren't allowed to have no safety driver present...yet. It was a fully autonomous vehicle and it was in self-driving mode.

Regards FireEngine

tdgeek

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#1985255 29-Mar-2018 09:10

FireEngine:

tdgeek:

...I dont know what status this Uber car had.

1. Autonomous, drives itself with no human requirement or presence. Not in this case

2. Self Drive, drives itself, with no need for human interaction, but need a human in case it cant do something. Maybe

3. Self Drive but more in a cruise control way, where the human is the official "driver" but the car does all the work. Maybe.

It was 2 as they aren't allowed to have no safety driver present...yet. It was a fully autonomous vehicle and it was in self-driving mode.

It has no steering wheel and pedals then? As I understand, autonomous has none, the others do

Rikkitic

Awrrr
17245 posts

Uber Geek

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#1985290 29-Mar-2018 10:18

nunz:

Here is how driverless cars should look - thanks Elon Musk

https://www.boringcompany.com/

https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/

No seat belts. Of course driverless cars never make mistakes, especially the cool-looking ones.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

gzt

15219 posts

Uber Geek

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#1985400 29-Mar-2018 13:39

Various partially sourced tech rumors are saying Uber was running in this area with lidar off and/or a lot less lidar. It's all unsubstantiated so far.

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