First Driverless Car Death

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2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

# 1981008 21-Mar-2018 14:21

networkn:

It depends on lots of factors. Did the car brake? Brake and swerve? Consider hitting the median barrier as well as braking to slow the car down more? So many variables. I would question the possibility of human witness lying or being mistaken as well.

Be very surprised if it didn't do the first two - that would be the most basic of its AI options. I doubt the third as the AI probably wouldn't know a person from a fence post or barrier. Regarding "braking to slow down more" - safe to assume it will continue to apply maximum braking performance until either stopped, situation avoided or crashed, isn't it?

But it's only relevant if a human had the reactions to do better and I bet that on balance they don't.

Humans might sometimes be better at making these fuzzy or unpredictable choices that might actually work better than the AI but in the real world humans routinely swerve into danger to avoid running over a possum. I'll side with the AI rather than expecting a human to make a clever fraction-of-a-second clever maneuver..

gzt

10947 posts

Uber Geek

# 1981026 21-Mar-2018 14:45

cadman:
You can't stop a suicidal pedestrian from using your vehicle to their own end. The laws of physics still apply to driverless vehicles.

I didn't notice a psychologists report in there.

gzt

10947 posts

Uber Geek

# 1981028 21-Mar-2018 14:50

networkn:
Having spoken to number of pilots over the years, they all believe that auto pilot was industry changing and most excellent. I have yet to speak to one who would prefer (or consider it safer) autopilot to be handling a plane in very unusual circumstances

This is analogous to something like Tesla driver assist on straight road. Fully autonomous vehicle is a longer step again.

gzt

10947 posts

Uber Geek

# 1981034 21-Mar-2018 14:55

robjg63: The article I read about the Uber crash indicates that the person 'in charge of the vehicle said the lady just stepped out unexpectedly. Neither a person or a computer can prevent that if this is the case.

I wonder if they have camera on the guy in the vehicle. I also wonder how long that persons shift and breaks are. It's early days I'm sure all that info will come out. Not particularly saying anything necessarily wrong there but not much info yet.

Rikkitic

Lock him up!
10819 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

# 1981040 21-Mar-2018 15:03

I remember a science-fiction film from many years ago which I think starred Kirk Douglas, or maybe it was even Michael. One of the two, I'm fairly sure. Anyway, this couple is stuck in a space station with a rogue computer that cannot be outwitted, as evidenced by the many chess games against it. Finally, Douglas wins in the end by doing something the computer doesn't understand and couldn't anticipate: He sacrifices himself for the sake of his partner.

I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney

BlueShift

1466 posts

Uber Geek

# 1981045 21-Mar-2018 15:23

gzt:
robjg63: The article I read about the Uber crash indicates that the person 'in charge of the vehicle said the lady just stepped out unexpectedly. Neither a person or a computer can prevent that if this is the case.

I wonder if they have camera on the guy in the vehicle. I also wonder how long that persons shift and breaks are. It's early days I'm sure all that info will come out. Not particularly saying anything necessarily wrong there but not much info yet.

Given the displayed ethics of the company, I would take anything coming from Uber with a grain of salt unless backed up by concrete evidence. They have an awful lot invested in making their driverless cars the future of their company. I have no idea whose fault the accident was, but it is decidedly in Uber's interests for the deceased to be at fault.

WolfmanNZ

110 posts

Master Geek

# 1981048 21-Mar-2018 15:32

https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/20/uber-fault-pedestrian-fatality-police-chief/

The pic of the accident scene is interesting - what a poorly designed setup!

tripper1000

1087 posts

Uber Geek

# 1981051 21-Mar-2018 15:35

If they have good video/elementary of this incident, and the investigation finds that the outcome would have been the same (or worse if that's possible) with a human driver, it could bring about increased faith in autonomous systems.

A pilot stacked an Airbus A320 in the early days (3 people killed from memory) and the knee jerk reaction was to blame the fly-by-wire as the pilot complained it interfered with his control of the plane, but the investigation found that the situation was well beyond recover by the time the fly-by-wire took control, and the fly-by-wire prevented the pilot from making the situation even worse still and most certainly saved lives. It silenced many critics of fly-by-wire.

tdgeek

18332 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

# 1981192 21-Mar-2018 18:30

BlueShift:

gzt:
robjg63: The article I read about the Uber crash indicates that the person 'in charge of the vehicle said the lady just stepped out unexpectedly. Neither a person or a computer can prevent that if this is the case.

I wonder if they have camera on the guy in the vehicle. I also wonder how long that persons shift and breaks are. It's early days I'm sure all that info will come out. Not particularly saying anything necessarily wrong there but not much info yet.

Given the displayed ethics of the company, I would take anything coming from Uber with a grain of salt unless backed up by concrete evidence. They have an awful lot invested in making their driverless cars the future of their company. I have no idea whose fault the accident was, but it is decidedly in Uber's interests for the deceased to be at fault.

Yes, as per my previous post there are conflicts of interests everywhere. If aircraft autopilot was just developed, who would book a flight based on "we are testing our autopilot, book now?" Worse still, the non self drive public are the test beds, not just the self drive humans

spencer

98 posts

Master Geek

# 1981247 21-Mar-2018 22:03

It looks like the Uber may not have been at fault.

cadman

1014 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

# 1981264 21-Mar-2018 22:50

networkn:

cadman:

You can't stop a suicidal pedestrian from using your vehicle to their own end. The laws of physics still apply to driverless vehicles.

Is there some evidence to support she tried to kill herself?

I'd suggest that is speculation at best. If true, then yes I'd likely agree, but I think it's much too early to be drawing that conclusion.

Got some evidence she didn't? No? Then I guess you'd just be speculating too.

In any case, I wasn't meaning suicidal in the literal sense, but the figurative one.

cadman

1014 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

# 1981265 21-Mar-2018 22:53

gzt:
cadman:

You can't stop a suicidal pedestrian from using your vehicle to their own end. The laws of physics still apply to driverless vehicles.

I didn't notice a psychologists report in there.

Nor in your post.

cadman

1014 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

# 1981302 22-Mar-2018 04:44

Rikkitic:

I remember a science-fiction film from many years ago which I think starred Kirk Douglas, or maybe it was even Michael. One of the two, I'm fairly sure. Anyway, this couple is stuck in a space station with a rogue computer that cannot be outwitted, as evidenced by the many chess games against it. Finally, Douglas wins in the end by doing something the computer doesn't understand and couldn't anticipate: He sacrifices himself for the sake of his partner.

Are you sure you're not thinking of 2001: A Space Odyssey. No 'Douglai' were in that but Leonard Rossiter was - he looks a little similar to them but wasn't in that particular role. I see Kirk is still kicking too - over 100 now. Stuff that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzIQUDQO-ag

MikeAqua

5385 posts

Uber Geek

# 1981341 22-Mar-2018 09:32

One person supports this post

spencer: It looks like the Uber may not have been at fault.

It was 3 mph over the limit though, I was surprised by that.

I'm not saying 3 mph would have made difference, but it was technically non-compliant with the law.

If someone dashes out, neither human nor AI can slow down in time.

Mike

kryptonjohn

2523 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

# 1981345 22-Mar-2018 09:54

MikeAqua:

spencer: It looks like the Uber may not have been at fault.

It was 3 mph over the limit though, I was surprised by that.

I'm not saying 3 mph would have made difference, but it was technically non-compliant with the law.

If someone dashes out, neither human nor AI can slow down in time.

Or... the AI can but the car can't

But 3mph... they must have intentionally built in an allowable variance. This 3mph figure is from their own data after all.

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