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1662 posts

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  #2074044 15-Aug-2018 16:27
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It would be interesting to come back in 8 or 10yrs.  

 

 

 

Infrastructure might not be so difficult.  People can charge at the motel or some type of supercharging at a paid for EV station.  

 

Those who update their cars fairly regularly might be the obvious adopters and plus the EV price tags come down.  

 

Unlike smartphones, EV cars have the same function as a ICE car.  All they do is drive from A to B.  Those who have ICE cars already there is still plenty of life in them, the average person could keep it for another 10 or 20yrs and it still drives.  


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Master Geek


  #2074045 15-Aug-2018 16:29
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tripper1000:

 

Debating weather or not the price of a new EV is too high or not is like debating weather LCD's are were too expensive in 2005 and if you should buy a CRT. Of course they are, but all new tech stuff is. That isn't to say the ICE/CRT is better than the EV/LCD, it just means an upgrade isn't affordable for everyone quite yet. In 13 years time people look at this thread will be laughing.

 

The price will come down once mass manufacture ramps up and soon there won't be any debate just as the price dropped and there is no debate about CRT vs LCD.

 

At the moment, they suit primarily the environmentally conscious and early adopters, but in a few years regular people will reflect on the days when they had an ICE a laugh. Just like CRT TV's you might even see working but superseded ICE that some optimist is trying to sell but no one in their right mind wants.

 

 

 

 

You are right of course ,the problem we seem to be encountering here is whereas television companies were happy to see people replace their old crt sets, with car manufactures there seem to be a reluctance to encourage people over to the new ev future.


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  #2074046 15-Aug-2018 16:31
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frednz:

 

networkn:

 

frednz:

 

Ah OK I hadn't though of that, yes I guess some people may regard owning a nice new long range EV as a status symbol because it represents the future and not the polluted past from owning petrol vehicles.

 

But, I could buy a new BMW i3 for around $75,000 - $95,000, but its pure electric range is only about 200km, so the Hyundai Kona is far and away the better bet if 400km range matters to you more than owning a BMW vehicle!

 

 

Surely, you could take the extra 30-40K and reduce your environmental footprint more than with an electric car, if the environment is indeed your primary concern?

 

 

 

 

The Government is encouraging as many people as possible to buy electric vehicles as part of their environmental policies. So, if some people are prepared to pay $80,000 for a 64 kWh elite Hyundai Kona, then this is a good thing because their Konas are likely to be sold within a few years at a considerably reduced price, which means that they may then be more attractive to a wider group of buyers.

 

So, even though new EVs are very expensive at the moment, we should encourage as many people to buy them as possible, rather than to continue investing in petrol vehicles (which are harmful to the environment), merely because they are cheaper than EVs.

 

 

 

 

A LCD is a lot slimmer and higher definition and good for the smaller townhouses / apartments and they just look much cooler.  A EV cars looks the same as a ICE car.  It's not like a EV car folds up in storage and expands out when you need to use it.  Nor does it fly.  Those who get newish cars regularly might just get a EV car when the time comes.  For those who who upgrade cars less often ....... 

 

 

 

Edit.  Also with digital TV, analogue TV was shut down.  Well unless the government shuts down many of the petrol stations and or hike up the petrol taxes to encourage people to go EV. 


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  #2074058 15-Aug-2018 17:12
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rayonline:

 

Well unless the government shuts down many of the petrol stations and or hike up the petrol taxes to encourage people to go EV

 

 

Shhhhhh, don't give them ideas,

 

 


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  #2074228 15-Aug-2018 22:29
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tripper1000:

 

Debating weather or not the price of a new EV is too high or not is like debating weather LCD's are were too expensive in 2005 and if you should buy a CRT. Of course they are, but all new tech stuff is. That isn't to say the ICE/CRT is better than the EV/LCD, it just means an upgrade isn't affordable for everyone quite yet. In 13 years time people look at this thread will be laughing.

 

The price will come down once mass manufacture ramps up and soon there won't be any debate just as the price dropped and there is no debate about CRT vs LCD.

 

At the moment, they suit primarily the environmentally conscious and early adopters, but in a few years regular people will reflect on the days when they had an ICE a laugh. Just like CRT TV's you might even see working but superseded ICE that some optimist is trying to sell but no one in their right mind wants.

 

 

It's going to be a good while before they are "cost" effective for most people to afford. It was said that once solar panels got more popular the price would drop. They haven't dropped much at all in the past 10 years. 

 

 


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  #2074229 15-Aug-2018 22:30
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Dinga96:

 

networkn:

 

Dinga96:

 

You should not assume that petrol will stay the same price for 16 years.

 

 

How much would it need to rise by to invalidate the comment?

 

 

 

 

networkn ,the comment is already invalid.

 

 

No, the comment is valid. Even with price increases of petrol factored in, there is no comparison between the cost of ICE vs EV. Last time I checked, electricity wasn't dropping in price either. 

 

 


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  #2074235 15-Aug-2018 22:41
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frednz:

 

The Government is encouraging as many people as possible to buy electric vehicles as part of their environmental policies. So, if some people are prepared to pay $80,000 for a 64 kWh elite Hyundai Kona, then this is a good thing because their Konas are likely to be sold within a few years at a considerably reduced price, which means that they may then be more attractive to a wider group of buyers.

 

So, even though new EVs are very expensive at the moment, we should encourage as many people to buy them as possible, rather than to continue investing in petrol vehicles (which are harmful to the environment), merely because they are cheaper than EVs.

 

 

Which policies is this Government implementing that encourages the purchase of EV? 

 

EV's aren't made of air, they have an impact on the environment. I am not saying don't go spend your hard earned cash on one, but you might want to go and take a really good hard look at the numbers. 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  #2074469 16-Aug-2018 13:20
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Getting back on the subject matter, here is a good write up on it in yesterdays Herald.I found it more interesting than previous stories from test drives on EVs.Especially the information on the 39.2kWh Kona Electric, which is apparently more efficient!

 

https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/reviews/hyundai-kona-electric-review-range-finder/


4773 posts

Uber Geek


  #2074476 16-Aug-2018 13:34
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Dinga96:

 

Getting back on the subject matter, here is a good write up on it in yesterdays Herald.I found it more interesting than previous stories from test drives on EVs.Especially the information on the 39.2kWh Kona Electric, which is apparently more efficient!

 

https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/reviews/hyundai-kona-electric-review-range-finder/

 

 

That's not surprising given its big brother is continually hauling around an extra 150kg in battery weight and more powerful motors .. 


1218 posts

Uber Geek


  #2074503 16-Aug-2018 14:35
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Aero-dynamics, or lack of, is the single biggest enemy of EV efficiency. The bigger vehicle just won't be as clean through the air.


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  #2074504 16-Aug-2018 14:35
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networkn:

 

It's going to be a good while before they are "cost" effective for most people to afford. It was said that once solar panels got more popular the price would drop. They haven't dropped much at all in the past 10 years. 

 

Blimey, where have you been - 1950?

 

Solar is getting cheap -  https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/solar-power-worlds-cheapest-electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html

 

The next Kona EV could be your next new car - prices are set to tumble. The batteries are the only thing making this car dearer than the ICE equivalent, and lithium battery prices are tumbling down.

 

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/electric-cars-battery-life-materials-cost#.W3Ta-NIUk-U


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  #2074512 16-Aug-2018 14:49
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tripper1000:

 

networkn:

 

It's going to be a good while before they are "cost" effective for most people to afford. It was said that once solar panels got more popular the price would drop. They haven't dropped much at all in the past 10 years. 

 

Blimey, where have you been - 1950?

 

Solar is getting cheap -  https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/solar-power-worlds-cheapest-electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html

 

The next Kona EV could be your next new car - prices are set to tumble. The batteries are the only thing making this car dearer than the ICE equivalent, and lithium battery prices are tumbling down.

 

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/electric-cars-battery-life-materials-cost#.W3Ta-NIUk-U

 

 

Go price Solar for your property. See if a normal family can get under 15 years of cost parity? The price for us was pretty much identical from what we priced it 6 years ago and about 11% cheaper than we we bought this house 12 years ago. If you call 11% a significant drop....

 

Solar has gotten more effcient, but not really cheaper.

 

For us it was 15 years WITHOUT a battery and 22 years WITH. That's not cheap. It's not even sensible.

 

 

 

 


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  #2074523 16-Aug-2018 15:10
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networkn:

 

tripper1000:

 

networkn:

 

It's going to be a good while before they are "cost" effective for most people to afford. It was said that once solar panels got more popular the price would drop. They haven't dropped much at all in the past 10 years. 

 

Blimey, where have you been - 1950?

 

Solar is getting cheap -  https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/solar-power-worlds-cheapest-electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html

 

The next Kona EV could be your next new car - prices are set to tumble. The batteries are the only thing making this car dearer than the ICE equivalent, and lithium battery prices are tumbling down.

 

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/electric-cars-battery-life-materials-cost#.W3Ta-NIUk-U

 

 

Go price Solar for your property. See if a normal family can get under 15 years of cost parity? The price for us was pretty much identical from what we priced it 6 years ago and about 11% cheaper than we we bought this house 12 years ago. If you call 11% a significant drop....

 

Solar has gotten more effcient, but not really cheaper.

 

For us it was 15 years WITHOUT a battery and 22 years WITH. That's not cheap. It's not even sensible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right. I really want PV, and it has got a bit cheaper, but the numbers don't stack up. Not because of the cost, that's worth it, the problem is summer you use less power, winter you use more, generation is back to front unless you are retired. You need a battery,  but by the time the battery has had it you use the savings to buy another


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  #2074525 16-Aug-2018 15:12
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tripper1000:

 

networkn:

 

It's going to be a good while before they are "cost" effective for most people to afford. It was said that once solar panels got more popular the price would drop. They haven't dropped much at all in the past 10 years. 

 

Blimey, where have you been - 1950?

 

Solar is getting cheap -  https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/solar-power-worlds-cheapest-electricity-production-energy-wind-farms-a7477096.html

 

The next Kona EV could be your next new car - prices are set to tumble. The batteries are the only thing making this car dearer than the ICE equivalent, and lithium battery prices are tumbling down.

 

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/electric-cars-battery-life-materials-cost#.W3Ta-NIUk-U

 

 

Don't think so. An EV engine has 20 parts, an ICE 2000, big saving there. Its R+D to recover. Like when Rewritable CD Drives were $2500 and $5 per CDRW blank


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  #2074566 16-Aug-2018 17:09
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I presume this was potentially discussed in another thread, but does the world have a source of renewable lithium for all these batteries?

 

I read somewhere recently that there are talks to limit consumer access to helium as we are overtapping our resources and lots of medical devices REQUIRE it.

 

It wouldn't be ideal to switch from one source of energy to another and find ourselves at Peak Lithium.

 

 

 

 


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