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148 posts

Master Geek


  #2229085 1-May-2019 23:19
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These are certainly base models, easily identified by the stick antenna instead of a shark’s fin.

And probably 2018 Irish spec units brought in before the price increase. I would imagine price is negotiable below $74k once they accumulate over 1,000 km, ORCs to be added of course.

This is the model I have.



1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2229207 2-May-2019 09:47
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KiwiME: These are certainly base models, easily identified by the stick antenna instead of a shark’s fin.

And probably 2018 Irish spec units brought in before the price increase. I would imagine price is negotiable below $74k once they accumulate over 1,000 km, ORCs to be added of course.

This is the model I have.

 

Thanks, yes I guess if a dealer was selling an elite model they would say this directly and point out it has leather interior trim, heated and ventilated front seats, head-up display, heated steering wheel, wireless charging pad, high beam assist etc which the entry model doesn't have.

 

At the moment, there are 10 used / demo electric Konas for sale on Trade Me, the cheapest of which is for $71,990 with 8677m on the clock and the dearest is $77,990 which has done 3500km. They all look like entry models and if they get their listed prices the dealers will have got the use of these vehicles for a few months without losing much / anything on resale!

 

I guess these would be great for businesses to think about, but I suspect individual buyers would rather pay $78,000 for a brand new entry level Kona even if this means a wait of a few months!

 

Also, the Kia Niro 64 kWh EV is now on sale for $74,000, which is comparable to, or slightly better than the Kona entry level EV, so this is another option that buyers have.

 

Therefore, I think it's a bit optimistic for a dealer to expect to get $74,000 for a demo Kona entry level vehicle and I think a price of around $65,000 would be plenty. But, I guess a few people / businesses are prepared to pay a premium price to avoid a wait of several months for a new Kona EV, so now's a good time to sell your Irish specd model or your entry level model!


 
 
 
 




1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2230668 4-May-2019 09:40
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KiwiME:

 

No, it's not in the specs. I looked on TM and of the two examples that have photos under the bonnet, one appears to have the HP but it's a bad photo, and the other doesn't.

 

Found a better pic of the eNiro HP on the web:

 

 

I found this article which may explain which Kia Niro models have a heat pump. The article says:

 

The EX Premium test car boasted parking sensors, sunroof, heated/ventilated leather front seats, navigation and infotainment touch screen backing up a Harman Kardon audio system. Other e-menities include Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, wireless phone charger, and multiple USB ports in the centre console with protective flip-caps, to keep liquids out. Our example also included the optional cold weather package, including battery warmer, heated steering wheel, and a high-efficiency heat pump to warm cabin air.

 

It looks like in some countries the heat pump is an "optional cold weather package" for the EX Premium model, which isn't available in New Zealand.

 

Although the heat pump may be present in some of the EV Niros sold overseas, I somehow doubt whether it's present in NZ EV Niros and I would check carefully under the bonnet before assuming that it's present. I talked to a couple of dealers and one said they didn't know whether the NZ EX455 had a heat pump and another one said it didn't have one. Although for most buyers this mightn't be a major issue, if you really want a heat pump, then it's clear that the Hyundai Kona 64 kWh model sold here certainly does have one!

 

Another point of interest is that the Niro EX Premium (not sold here) has built-in satnav, but the EV Niros sold here don't have this.

 

 


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  #2230980 4-May-2019 21:52
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frednz:

 

Another issue with buying an EV is whether or not it has a heat pump. Here's an extract from an article about heat pumps

 

"The best part of electric vehicles for me in the wintertime is the fast heating system. Many electric cars have a heat pump heating system that works like the traditional AC, but in reverse. This system is incredibly fast in heating up the car. I tried it the first time with our 2016 Nissan LEAF. It was a typical 16 degree Minnesota winter day. I went into our cold garage and reversed the car outside to the alley. While I waited for the garage door to close I wondered why the automatic fan was already running and to my surprise it was already pushing lukewarm air from the heating ducts. I drove less than a block and the air coming out was already hot. I had never experienced this kind of heating performance from any car before."

 

I wondered whether the heat pump system advertised as being present in the Hyundai Kona EVs is worth having and works well?

 

Not all EVs have heat pumps, so I wondered whether this is regarded as a key issue when selecting an EV?

 

For example, it looks like the Kia Niro EVs don't have either heat pumps or built-in satnav, but I guess most buyers wouldn't regard these features as essential?

 



Should note that near instant heat availability is a feature of pretty much every EV. In a petrol / diesel car, you need to wait for the engine block to get warm to be able to scavenge waste heat from it to heat the cabin. (other than the wait on cold mornings a great idea as the heat is free as it is waste anyway).

EV's are so efficient there isn't enough enough heat to scavenge, so they use electricity to make it, either via electric resistance heating, or a heatpump. Main (only?) advantage of the latter is that it is much more efficient, so you will use less of your battery to heat the car, leaving more for driving. Both will be near instant to provide heat, and both should crank out decent heat.


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  #2232535 7-May-2019 22:25
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Scott3: ]Should note that near instant heat availability is a feature of pretty much every EV. In a petrol / diesel car, you need to wait for the engine block to get warm to be able to scavenge waste heat from it to heat the cabin. (other than the wait on cold mornings a great idea as the heat is free as it is waste anyway).

EV's are so efficient there isn't enough enough heat to scavenge, so they use electricity to make it, either via electric resistance heating, or a heatpump. Main (only?) advantage of the latter is that it is much more efficient, so you will use less of your battery to heat the car, leaving more for driving. Both will be near instant to provide heat, and both should crank out decent heat.

 

 

The heat pump works great - hot or cold - in my EV even in accessory mode....(drivetrain not engaged......) and of course there is no exhaust to worry about.

 

 

I reckon on a full charge my LEAF would keep me warm or cool for at least 50 hours continuous (not driven - just sitting there). It seems to use 2% / hour for the aircon / heat (having sat motionless for 90 minutes today on SH1 due to a major crash south of Huntly).




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148 posts

Master Geek


  #2232670 8-May-2019 09:17
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Linuxluver:
... I reckon on a full charge my LEAF would keep me warm or cool for at least 50 hours continuous (not driven - just sitting there)...

 

The Kona's power use menu indicates around 200-600 watts in the 'climate' category which is just the heat pump since it's running straight off the traction battery.  The fan draw is included with all other 12V loads in the 'electronics' category and that can be around 1-2kW.


148 posts

Master Geek


  #2247036 28-May-2019 13:10
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Just for interest I've written a spreadsheet to compare the 5-year running costs of a Kona 1.6T with the Kona Electric.  There are two takeaways from this; one is that the cost of public charging can be several times that of charging at home which is why it's necessary to present this data as a plot of cost/km v.s. average power cost/unit, and second, when RUCs become effective the running costs will strongly favour overnight home charging over public charging to break even with ICE.

 

The purchase cost margin of $32,000 for the EV version is difficult (meaning nearly impossible) to claw back with such tight advantages.  Also, I have to worry that our government thinks EV owners are getting away with murder (cost-wise) right now with no RUCs and will happily allow the legislated exemption to expire on 31 Dec 2021.

 

Click to see full size

 

Click to see full size


 
 
 
 


457 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2247040 28-May-2019 13:23
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Do you mind sharing the spreadsheet so we can use our own figures to tweak it?

148 posts

Master Geek


  #2247077 28-May-2019 14:23
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Try this link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwz6ed81w9ui0t4/EV%20running%20cost%20comparator.xlsx?dl=0

 

Edit the figures in the beige and light green cells to suit.  The purchase costs and CO2 figures are not currently evaluated, it's just a roll-up of running expenses. 


1218 posts

Uber Geek


#2247246 28-May-2019 16:28
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KiwiME:....The purchase cost margin of $32,000 for the EV version is difficult (meaning nearly impossible) to claw back with such tight advantages.  Also, I have to worry that our government thinks EV owners are getting away with murder (cost-wise) right now with no RUCs and will happily allow the legislated exemption to expire on 31 Dec 2021.

 

Just more evidence that environmentally speaking, in N.Z. the Govt talks the talk but doesn't walk to the walk. We'll be the last in world to go fully electric. Even major polluters like China and the USA are likely to beat us.


4797 posts

Uber Geek


  #2247274 28-May-2019 17:33
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tripper1000:

 

KiwiME:....The purchase cost margin of $32,000 for the EV version is difficult (meaning nearly impossible) to claw back with such tight advantages.  Also, I have to worry that our government thinks EV owners are getting away with murder (cost-wise) right now with no RUCs and will happily allow the legislated exemption to expire on 31 Dec 2021.

 

Just more evidence that environmentally speaking, in N.Z. the Govt talks the talk but doesn't walk to the walk. We'll be the last in world to go fully electric. Even major polluters like China and the USA are likely to beat us.

 

 

Not really, NZs EV additions are around 2.1% of new light fleet registrations , in the US its about the same [2.2%)

 

(in 2018, the US added 378K EVS out of 17 million total light new registrations),


8419 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2247305 28-May-2019 17:57
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wellygary:

 

tripper1000:

 

KiwiME:....The purchase cost margin of $32,000 for the EV version is difficult (meaning nearly impossible) to claw back with such tight advantages.  Also, I have to worry that our government thinks EV owners are getting away with murder (cost-wise) right now with no RUCs and will happily allow the legislated exemption to expire on 31 Dec 2021.

 

Just more evidence that environmentally speaking, in N.Z. the Govt talks the talk but doesn't walk to the walk. We'll be the last in world to go fully electric. Even major polluters like China and the USA are likely to beat us.

 

 

Not really, NZs EV additions are around 2.1% of new light fleet registrations , in the US its about the same [2.2%)

 

(in 2018, the US added 378K EVS out of 17 million total light new registrations),

 

 

Most NZ new registrations are from 2nd hand EV imports.  If they relied on NZ New EVs then the amount would be very small due to the high costs of new cars. 





Regards,

Old3eyes


148 posts

Master Geek


  #2247308 28-May-2019 17:58
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Wiki says 0.96% of new cars for 2018, far down the list.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country


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