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  Reply # 2071277 10-Aug-2018 13:22
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I just spent 2 weeks driving a Chevy Bolt EV in Canada. That car has a 60kWh battery and real world 400km range. My longest drive was 282km from Port Severn, Ontario to Azilda, Ontario (just west of Sudbury). I was on 85% charge at the start and arrived in Azilda on 23%. 

I was able to drive from Ottawa to Sarnia (725km) with just two short charging stops....and could have done with just one charging stop if i was willing to cycle the battery deeply (I wasn't). 

With a car like this......you'll have to stop before the car runs out of juice. 

I'm looking forward to the Tesla Model 3 or Hydundai Kona more than ever now......range just isn't an issue, nor is battery temperature. I drove to Bolt EV over 800km one day when the ambient temp was 35C. No heating issues at all.  





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  Reply # 2071283 10-Aug-2018 13:26
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/106061665/move-over-tesla-hyundais-kona-ev-can-go-400km-on-a-single-charge

 

The car in question. I havent driven one or seen one up close but I am sure it will have a better build quality than the Tesla given its a Hyundai.





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  Reply # 2071295 10-Aug-2018 13:47
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Linuxluver:

 

I'm looking forward to the Tesla Model 3 or Hydundai Kona more than ever now......range just isn't an issue, nor is battery temperature. I drove to Bolt EV over 800km one day when the ambient temp was 35C. No heating issues at all.  

 

 

60 kWh does appear to be the sweet spot to pretty much totally kill range anxiety....

 

Its also interesting the Nissan have dumped their in-house ( now sold) battery tech for the leaf e-plus and will use LG Chem (same as in the Bolt and Kona)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2071355 10-Aug-2018 14:24
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wellygary:

 

Linuxluver:

 

I'm looking forward to the Tesla Model 3 or Hydundai Kona more than ever now......range just isn't an issue, nor is battery temperature. I drove to Bolt EV over 800km one day when the ambient temp was 35C. No heating issues at all.  

 

 

60 kWh does appear to be the sweet spot to pretty much totally kill range anxiety....

 

Its also interesting the Nissan have dumped their in-house ( now sold) battery tech for the leaf e-plus and will use LG Chem (same as in the Bolt and Kona)

 

 

That certainly was my experience. With range like that, it just doesn't matter. 

One way or another, I'm getting a long range EV next year. I've had a taste....and it tastes real good. 





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  Reply # 2071366 10-Aug-2018 14:36
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Linuxluver:

 

That certainly was my experience. With range like that, it just doesn't matter. 

One way or another, I'm getting a long range EV next year. I've had a taste....and it tastes real good. 

 

 

In a small country like NZ the impact will be even greater,

 

400k is nearly Auckland-Napier in one hit,

 

But when you combine it with a lunch stop, its anywhere in the North Island, (and comparable to the behaviour of over 90% of ICE drivers)

 

Now all we need to work on are the prices......

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2071369 10-Aug-2018 14:41
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wellygary:

 

Linuxluver:

 

That certainly was my experience. With range like that, it just doesn't matter. 

One way or another, I'm getting a long range EV next year. I've had a taste....and it tastes real good. 

 

 

In a small country like NZ the impact will be even greater,

 

400k is nearly Auckland-Napier in one hit,

 

But when you combine it with a lunch stop, its anywhere in the North Island, (and comparable to the behaviour of over 90% of ICE drivers)

 

Now all we need to work on are the prices......

 

 

A birdy tells me incentives coming - to make the price more comparable and bridge the gap - maybe when there are more Evs available. No point pumping demand when the cars aren't yet there. Next year, I think. There will be KIA Niro, Hyundai Kona and Ioniq, Tesla 3, S, X and several others. 





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  Reply # 2071422 10-Aug-2018 16:14
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MikeB4:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/106061665/move-over-tesla-hyundais-kona-ev-can-go-400km-on-a-single-charge

 

The car in question. I havent driven one or seen one up close but I am sure it will have a better build quality than the Tesla given its a Hyundai.

 

 

Thanks, a good article. It mentions that:

 

With this level of battery performance we're talking fast-charging all the way. Plugged in at home, the Kona Electric will take a staggering 43 hours to charge from flat. On an AC fast charger it's 8-9 hours, while a DC fast charger will get you to 80 per cent (the usual for an EV, as that last 20 per cent takes an age) in 75 minutes.

 

And this article says that:

 

So it goes with the Kona EV. You might just as well forget about plugging it into a home wall socket; any meaningful ‘overnight’ replenishment would require being inconvenienced for up to 26 hours with the smaller battery and 43 hours for the larger. That’s obviously sobering to non-EVists, but not as shocking as some. The Tesla Model X, if you see it as a rival, takes longer.

 

There are better ways. One, which Hyundai NZ will push hard, is to buy into a home quick charger, which comes for several thousand dollars with final cost depending on the state of your wiring. The older the house, the pricier it can get. But, anyway, a recharge to good battery health will take 5-6 hours for the smaller one and 8-9 hours for the other.

 

So, you'll need to get a quote for a "home quick charger", likely to be several thousand dollars?


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  Reply # 2071451 10-Aug-2018 17:02
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frednz:

 

And this article says that:

 

So it goes with the Kona EV. You might just as well forget about plugging it into a home wall socket; any meaningful ‘overnight’ replenishment would require being inconvenienced for up to 26 hours with the smaller battery and 43 hours for the larger.

 

 

And some journo has obviously reading US reviews , because he's pretty much described 110V @15 amp,

 

with 230V in NZ you should be able to draw 20 amp from an fixed outlet (if there is nothing else on the circuit), which will give you ~4.5 khw which will charge 60kwh in 14 hours.....

 

Even on a congested 10amp circuit you will be under 30 hours for the big battery

 

 


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  Reply # 2071456 10-Aug-2018 17:12
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Using the US numbers, 43 hours from 0 to 64 kWh is ~1.5 kWh per hour of wall socket charging. 

 

There're fairly good data out there now that this car can comfortably do 400 km on 64 kWh i.e. 6.25 km per kWh. So that means regaining ~9.4 km per hour with wall socket.

 

So e.g. if overnight is 9 hours, then that's ~80 km. Suspect that's plenty for most people on most days.


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  Reply # 2071488 10-Aug-2018 19:06
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paulchinnz:

Using the US numbers, 43 hours from 0 to 64 kWh is ~1.5 kWh per hour of wall socket charging. 

 

There're fairly good data out there now that this car can comfortably do 400 km on 64 kWh i.e. 6.25 km per kWh. So that means regaining ~9.4 km per hour with wall socket.

 

So e.g. if overnight is 9 hours, then that's ~80 km. Suspect that's plenty for most people on most days.

 

 

But we are not in the US, on a regular 230V you do north of 2Kwh per hour, and on 20amp you're over 4Kwh an hour, at 6km per Kwh and 9 hours you are looking at ~108 and 216 km respectivly...



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  Reply # 2071498 10-Aug-2018 19:53
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frednz:

 

MikeB4:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/106061665/move-over-tesla-hyundais-kona-ev-can-go-400km-on-a-single-charge

 

The car in question. I havent driven one or seen one up close but I am sure it will have a better build quality than the Tesla given its a Hyundai.

 

 

Thanks, a good article. It mentions that:

 

With this level of battery performance we're talking fast-charging all the way. Plugged in at home, the Kona Electric will take a staggering 43 hours to charge from flat. On an AC fast charger it's 8-9 hours, while a DC fast charger will get you to 80 per cent (the usual for an EV, as that last 20 per cent takes an age) in 75 minutes.

 

And this article says that:

 

So it goes with the Kona EV. You might just as well forget about plugging it into a home wall socket; any meaningful ‘overnight’ replenishment would require being inconvenienced for up to 26 hours with the smaller battery and 43 hours for the larger. That’s obviously sobering to non-EVists, but not as shocking as some. The Tesla Model X, if you see it as a rival, takes longer.

 

There are better ways. One, which Hyundai NZ will push hard, is to buy into a home quick charger, which comes for several thousand dollars with final cost depending on the state of your wiring. The older the house, the pricier it can get. But, anyway, a recharge to good battery health will take 5-6 hours for the smaller one and 8-9 hours for the other.

 

So, you'll need to get a quote for a "home quick charger", likely to be several thousand dollars?

 

 

Thanks for your comments so far on this issue which place some doubt on the 43 hours quoted charging time.

 

The following NZ Hyundai web page also states that it takes 43 hours to charge when using household AC current:

 

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/suv/kona-electric/overview

 

Here's an extract from the above page:

 

In-Cable Control Box (ICCB) charging cable (43 hours)

 

Recharge your Kona Electric practically anywhere. It's designed to connect to a standard 3 PIN wall socket and will recharge Kona Electric using household AC current.

 

Fast Charge Wall Box (9.5 hours)

 

The optional accessory wall box for your household improves charge times by utilising a high amperage power supply.

 

Public Rapid Charging Station (75 minutes to 80% charge)

 

The fastest way to charge your Kona Electric. Utilising a powerful DC charging unit the rapid charger offers a fast and convenient solution to those out on the road.

 

Charging times for the high voltage battery may vary as it is dependent on the condition of the high voltage battery, charger specifications and ambient temperature.


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  Reply # 2071516 10-Aug-2018 20:33
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wellygary:
paulchinnz:

 

Using the US numbers, 43 hours from 0 to 64 kWh is ~1.5 kWh per hour of wall socket charging. 

 

There're fairly good data out there now that this car can comfortably do 400 km on 64 kWh i.e. 6.25 km per kWh. So that means regaining ~9.4 km per hour with wall socket.

 

So e.g. if overnight is 9 hours, then that's ~80 km. Suspect that's plenty for most people on most days.

 

But we are not in the US, on a regular 230V you do north of 2Kwh per hour, and on 20amp you're over 4Kwh an hour, at 6km per Kwh and 9 hours you are looking at ~108 and 216 km respectivly...

 

 

 

Agree most folks should wait and see how their battery performs on there ac plug before they decide if they want the wall charger.If your driving over 200 kms a day, sure your going to need something beefier .You will mostly just leave it at 50 percent charged and top it up to that again when finished your daily commute to prevent any early battery degredation which may happen with regular full charging and discharging.Something most dealerships have no clues about,but happy to sell you a wall charger.




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  Reply # 2073252 14-Aug-2018 12:58
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wellygary

 

But we are not in the US, on a regular 230V you do north of 2Kwh per hour. ...

 

I realise there are severable variables here, but assuming electricity in NZ is supplied at 230 volts, and that NZ house circuits are rated at 10 amps, and that the 64 kWh battery accepts a constant rate of charge, then you might expect it to charge from 0% to 100% in about 28 hours.

 

But, on the ChargeNet NZ site it states that:

 

“The speed of charging slows as the batteries fill. After 80% charged, the speed is noticeably slower and because customers are charged per minute, the cost effectiveness is reduced over 80%. The last 5% is so slow, that we do not offer it as an option.”

 

So, do you think that, on this basis, the reason that the Kona 64 kWh specifications state that it takes 43 hours to charge the battery, may be because they have taken into account the much slower charging speed when charging the battery from 80% to 100%?


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  Reply # 2073321 14-Aug-2018 15:14
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frednz:

 

So, you'll need to get a quote for a "home quick charger", likely to be several thousand dollars?

 



The several thousand dollars will be for if you need to upgrade the incomer coming into your home, or replace your circuit board.

The charger itself is on-board the car, the "charger" is actually an EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment), it does a handshake with the car, and only turns on the power when it is sure the connection is made and safe (checks earth continuity etc). This is what means you can install gear outside, and charge in the rain.... A "dumb" box runs at about $1000.

Like the 7kW one here: https://www.driveev.co.nz/ev-accessories

 

Most have the ability to choose anything from 10A to 32A via internal dials or jumpers so, can be adjusted to the capacity available. If you can spare the capacity, I would expect an electricians fee to install to be well under $1000... Some people will need breakers put on incomers, and in come cases replace the circuit board.

 



frednz:

 

wellygary

 

But we are not in the US, on a regular 230V you do north of 2Kwh per hour. ...

 

I realise there are severable variables here, but assuming electricity in NZ is supplied at 230 volts, and that NZ house circuits are rated at 10 amps, and that the 64 kWh battery accepts a constant rate of charge, then you might expect it to charge from 0% to 100% in about 28 hours.

 

But, on the ChargeNet NZ site it states that:

 

“The speed of charging slows as the batteries fill. After 80% charged, the speed is noticeably slower and because customers are charged per minute, the cost effectiveness is reduced over 80%. The last 5% is so slow, that we do not offer it as an option.”

 

So, do you think that, on this basis, the reason that the Kona 64 kWh specifications state that it takes 43 hours to charge the battery, may be because they have taken into account the much slower charging speed when charging the battery from 80% to 100%?

 



The tapering off of charge rate you describe is only really relevant at high charge rates (such as on chargenets 50kW DC fast charge network.). In essence, a hypothetical 24 kWh nissan leaf battery can only accept say a 20kW charge rate at 90% state of charge. Clearly this would require a fast charger to slow down, but a 1.8kW charger can keep running at maximum rate.

Regarding the 43 hour charge time consider the following:

 

- Worksafe regulations set a max current of 8A for EV charging from a standard three pin sockets. If line voltage matches the nominal 230V, then only 1.84kW can be drawn.
- The charging process is not 100% efficient. Chargers & batteries both loose energy to heat during the charging process. In addition overhead loads exist. Generally charging EV's bring all their computers etc out of sleep mode to manage the charging process, and cooling systems need to be run. (fans, coolant pumps, and in cars with thermally managed packs like the BMW i3, tesla etc, the A/C compresses will fire up to cool the traction battery if it is too hot.) Somebody in the USA did plug to battery analysis of a leaf charging at 3.8kW on 240v power. Charge efficiency was 90.9%. Note that chargers are generally less efficient at lower charge rates.

 

If we assumed that the 64kWh battery was its usable figure, and we charged it at 1.8kW, and 83% efficiency, then the charge time would be 43 hours...




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  Reply # 2073804 15-Aug-2018 10:58
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Thanks very much Scott for your reply. If you’re charging your Kona 64 kWh EV at home using 230 volts and 8 amps, then it’s good to know that this will take 43 hours (if you charge from 0% to 100%) and that there won’t be any tapering off of the charge rate between 80% capacity and 100% capacity.

 

Assuming the range of the Kona 64 kWh is 400 km, this means that, for every hour the battery is being charged, you’re adding about 9.3 km to its range. So, if you charge the battery for, say, 13 hours, you will add only 120 km to its range, taking it, for example, from 50% capacity to 80% capacity.

 

If you have installed at home the fast charge wall box, which takes 9.5 hours to charge from 0% to 100%, then for every hour the battery is being charged, you’re adding about 42 km to its range, so charging from 50% capacity to 80% capacity will take about 2.85 hours to add 120 km to its range.

 

For most people who have paid $80,000 for a 64 kWh EV, I guess it would be a no-brainer to pay an extra $2,000 - $3,000 for a fast charge home wall box as there may be times when you need to charge up the battery quickly and get the car back into action.

 

However, as far as battery life goes, do you think it might be better to charge the battery at the slowest possible rate rather than using the fast charge wall box?

 

 


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