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  # 2041591 21-Jun-2018 11:12
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kryptonjohn:

MikeAqua:


pdh:


How can we have 4 pages of discussion about Auckland’s transport – and ignore modern tech ?



...


... Then make it very expensive for people to drive into the CBD ...


...



In Auckland the CBD is only a fraction of the problem. Getting from anywhere to anywhere is a problem e.g. Penrose to Manukau etc


 



Your example here is not too bad. Via train, change trains at Otahuhu, $3.30 hop fare each way. Trains every 10 mins during peak.

Cheers
Joseph

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  # 2041594 21-Jun-2018 11:28
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kryptonjohn:

 

peetter:

 

Light rail is just a bus on rails.

 

 

Couldn't put it better myself. And being on rails it can't drive around a problem like a bus can. And it causes huge cost and disruption putting those rails in. And once they're in you can't change the route without getting disruption and cost again. 

 

I don't understand why people would want to spend billions building this 18th century technology.

 

 

Probably because just chucking more and more buses down congested roads isn't actually an option.


 
 
 
 




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  # 2041597 21-Jun-2018 11:32
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josephhinvest:
kryptonjohn:

 

MikeAqua:

 

 

 

pdh:

 

 

 

How can we have 4 pages of discussion about Auckland’s transport – and ignore modern tech ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

... Then make it very expensive for people to drive into the CBD ...

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Auckland the CBD is only a fraction of the problem. Getting from anywhere to anywhere is a problem e.g. Penrose to Manukau etc

 

 

 

 

 



Your example here is not too bad. Via train, change trains at Otahuhu, $3.30 hop fare each way. Trains every 10 mins during peak.

Cheers
Joseph

 

Yep, and fantastic if they are within walking distance of the station at each end, but otherwise this person also needs to get between home to the station and station and destination. In London you'd just get the tube across then the tube down etc.

 

 




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  # 2041598 21-Jun-2018 11:33
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GV27:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

peetter:

 

Light rail is just a bus on rails.

 

 

Couldn't put it better myself. And being on rails it can't drive around a problem like a bus can. And it causes huge cost and disruption putting those rails in. And once they're in you can't change the route without getting disruption and cost again. 

 

I don't understand why people would want to spend billions building this 18th century technology.

 

 

Probably because just chucking more and more buses down congested roads isn't actually an option.

 

 

Chucking light rail down congested roads is much worse.

 

 


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  # 2041600 21-Jun-2018 11:36
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kryptonjohn:

 

In Auckland the CBD is only a fraction of the problem. Getting from anywhere to anywhere is a problem e.g. Penrose to Manukau etc

 

 

I agree it's a clustersealed all round.   To get from anywhere to anywhere you mostly have to pass through a triangle whose corners are the CBD, Mt Wellington and New Lynn.

 

It needs MT corridors that avoid all that Triangle (and each other) unless necessary, and concentrate development of housing along those corridors.  Each major hub is like a village with shops, cafes and apartments.  Easier to plan then retrofit - unless you can get ahead of the growth and actually plan it.

 

It's all very expensive and difficult to get consent for.  IMO Auckland will always be hideous to get around, because residents will never accept the levels of rates, development, land acquisition and NIMBY-flogging necessary to fix it. ALos many of the benfits will be felt by sectros that don't contribute to costs - schools, health system, environmental management etc.

 

I had a few beers with a mate who lives in Auckland last night.  He and partner are counting down the months until they have enough equity to sell up, move to Nelson and live on two part time incomes - mortgage free.

 

The only city I've been in that is truly easy to get around is Singapore.  A fairly firm approach to governance was taken to make that happen.

 

I agree with whoever said light rail is just a bus on tracks and buses would be more flexible.  The key thing is to have a dedicated and prioritised corridor.  In Welly at peak times the bus is quicker to the airport for me than a taxi - despite making 4 stops en-route.  I put this down to the bus lanes.





Mike

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  # 2041612 21-Jun-2018 11:39
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kryptonjohn:

 

GV27:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

peetter:

 

Light rail is just a bus on rails.

 

 

Couldn't put it better myself. And being on rails it can't drive around a problem like a bus can. And it causes huge cost and disruption putting those rails in. And once they're in you can't change the route without getting disruption and cost again. 

 

I don't understand why people would want to spend billions building this 18th century technology.

 

 

Probably because just chucking more and more buses down congested roads isn't actually an option.

 

 

Chucking light rail down congested roads is much worse.

 

 

Not when the congestion is being caused by there being so many buses and light rail has a higher capacity-per-vehicle. There are actual reasons this is being looked at as an option. 




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  # 2041615 21-Jun-2018 11:42
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MikeAqua:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

In Auckland the CBD is only a fraction of the problem. Getting from anywhere to anywhere is a problem e.g. Penrose to Manukau etc

 

 

I agree it's a clustersealed all round.   To get from anywhere to anywhere you mostly have to pass through a triangle whose corners are the CBD, Mt Wellington and New Lynn.

 

It needs MT corridors that avoid all that Triangle (and each other) unless necessary, and concentrate development of housing along those corridors.  Each major hub is like a village with shops, cafes and apartments.  Easier to plan then retrofit - unless you can get ahead of the growth and actually plan it.

 

It's all very expensive and difficult to get consent for.  IMO Auckland will always be hideous to get around, because residents will never accept the levels of rates, development, land acquisition and NIMBY-flogging necessary to fix it. ALos many of the benfits will be felt by sectros that don't contribute to costs - schools, health system, environmental management etc.

 

I had a few beers with a mate who lives in Auckland last night.  He and partner are counting down the months until they have enough equity to sell up, move to Nelson and live on two part time incomes - mortgage free.

 

The only city I've been in that is truly easy to get around is Singapore.  A fairly firm approach to governance was taken to make that happen.

 

I agree with whoever said light rail is just a bus on tracks and buses would be more flexible.  The key thing is to have a dedicated and prioritised corridor.  In Welly at peak times the bus is quicker to the airport for me than a taxi - despite making 4 stops en-route.  I put this down to the bus lanes.

 

 

Yep the Auckland Northern Busway is way faster than driving from the North Shore at peak times. Only they've crippled it by not having sufficient park'n ride spaces at the stations.

 

I wouldn't mid semi-retirement in Nelson, but would prefer Whangarei - the "Nelson of the north" !. SWMBO not sounding too interested, though.

 

 

 

 


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  # 2041627 21-Jun-2018 12:04
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kryptonjohn:

 

I wouldn't mid semi-retirement in Nelson, but would prefer Whangarei - the "Nelson of the north" !. SWMBO not sounding too interested, though.

 

 

I like Whangarei too.  Great fishing.  Is Whangarei getting expensive as Aucklanders retire there?  Kerikeri is.





Mike



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  # 2041645 21-Jun-2018 12:14
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MikeAqua:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

I wouldn't mid semi-retirement in Nelson, but would prefer Whangarei - the "Nelson of the north" !. SWMBO not sounding too interested, though.

 

 

I like Whangarei too.  Great fishing.  Is Whangarei getting expensive as Aucklanders retire there?  Kerikeri is.

 

 

Doesn't seem too expensive yet but seems bound to. Mate just sold his lifestyle block in Opaheke south of Auckland, moved to a new one out of Kamo. His Opaheke - Manukau commute was pretty bad, but his 20k Whangarei commute now is less than 20min. Nicer house and property, pocketed a couple of hundred K difference. He's loving the fishing too.

 

 


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  # 2041659 21-Jun-2018 12:52
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kryptonjohn:

 

Nicer house and property, pocketed a couple of hundred K difference. He's loving the fishing too.

 

 

Great place for gardening too if you can keep the fungi under control. 200k in the back pocket would help with a suitable fishing boat laughing





Mike



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  # 2041674 21-Jun-2018 13:25
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MikeAqua:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

Nicer house and property, pocketed a couple of hundred K difference. He's loving the fishing too.

 

 

Great place for gardening too if you can keep the fungi under control. 200k in the back pocket would help with a suitable fishing boat laughing

 

 

Oh man. Gotta get the kids out of the house and move!

 

 


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  # 2041687 21-Jun-2018 13:51
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kryptonjohn:

 

Oh man. Gotta get the kids out of the house and move!

 

 

Good luck with we have a 23 daughter year old living with us.





Mike



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  # 2041691 21-Jun-2018 13:55
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... paying board I hope!

 

 


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  # 2041713 21-Jun-2018 14:04
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sbiddle:

 

I still don't think fares are expensive. Public transport costs in Auckland based on journey distances are less than Wellington

 

 

Last weeks North Shore Times (page 39) says Auckland is "the world's third most expensive city in which to take public transport ... costs an average of NZ$174 per month)". The quoted source is the Duetsche Bank Mapping the World's Price 2017 report). Wellington came out as the 12th ($143 per month)




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  # 2041719 21-Jun-2018 14:19
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stinger:

 

sbiddle:

 

I still don't think fares are expensive. Public transport costs in Auckland based on journey distances are less than Wellington

 

 

Last weeks North Shore Times (page 39) says Auckland is "the world's third most expensive city in which to take public transport ... costs an average of NZ$174 per month)". The quoted source is the Duetsche Bank Mapping the World's Price 2017 report). Wellington came out as the 12th ($143 per month)

 

 

According to this:

 

https://www.toptiplondon.com/transport/tickets/underground-tickets-travelcards/

 

the middle-span London monthly travel card 223 quid or about NZ$430 ???

 

 


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